Phil Kuhns Posted August 8, 2012 Report Share Posted August 8, 2012 K so one of my dynastes tityus larvae is over a year old and quite yellow in color but I dont know when it will build a pupal cell. what I am afraid of is that the substrate its in now is not suitable for building pupal cells so I cant tell if its just not ready yet or if it wont build one due to the substrate. I can change it anytime, I just dont know when. Right now the substrate is good for eating but wouldnt be so much if I changed it to pure compost manure for cell building and I wouldnt want to do that too early. what should I do? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oak Posted August 9, 2012 Report Share Posted August 9, 2012 it'd be great if you had some pictures Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Kuhns Posted August 9, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 9, 2012 of the grub or the substrate? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oak Posted August 9, 2012 Report Share Posted August 9, 2012 Both would be nice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucanus Posted August 9, 2012 Report Share Posted August 9, 2012 Substrates doesn't really matter for this species to pupate since they create a huge cocoon built out of their feces and body fluids mixed with some surroundings. My D. tityus took longer than a year. You probably need to wait more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Kuhns Posted August 9, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 9, 2012 Substrates doesn't really matter for this species to pupate since they create a huge cocoon built out of their feces and body fluids mixed with some surroundings. My D. tityus took longer than a year. You probably need to wait more. The reason I think its close is cuz it is way ahead of its siblings growthwise. Ive estimated based on when their individual 1, 2, and 3 instar molts took place and other peoples records of when tityus tipically build cells that The fastest growing grub I have is scheduled to build a cell close to 12 months, two others close to 16, and the last close to 18. could be wrong but that biggest one has been L3 since november.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dynastes Posted August 9, 2012 Report Share Posted August 9, 2012 Substrates doesn't really matter for this species to pupate since they create a huge cocoon built out of their feces and body fluids mixed with some surroundings. That's not true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucanus Posted August 9, 2012 Report Share Posted August 9, 2012 That's not true. How come? I've tried different substrates with different particle size and the larvae didn't seem to mind about it. Can you explain more further? I am pretty sure they can pupate in almost any substrates as long as it isn't just composed of hard materials that can't be broken down or too big in size, which means even sand should work (I've actually seen some wild specimens that pupated in half clay half sand environment at the bottom of the tree cavity) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dynastes Posted August 9, 2012 Report Share Posted August 9, 2012 How come? I've tried different substrates with different particle size and the larvae didn't seem to mind about it. Can you explain more further? I am pretty sure they can pupate in almost any substrates as long as it isn't just composed of hard materials that can't be broken down or too big in size, which means even sand should work (I've actually seen some wild specimens that pupated in half clay half sand environment at the bottom of the tree cavity) They compact the substrate that is around them and don't make a pupal cell from secretions, the secretion follows pupal cell formation by up to three weeks and has minimal effect on the stability. If the substrate is too dry they can't form a pupal cell. They probably could make a decent cell in damp sand (and certainly could make it in clay) but if the sand dried a little it would just collapse on the grub or pupa. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucanus Posted August 9, 2012 Report Share Posted August 9, 2012 They compact the substrate that is around them and don't make a pupal cell from secretions, the secretion follows pupal cell formation by up to three weeks and has minimal effect on the stability. If the substrate is too dry they can't form a pupal cell. They probably could make a decent cell in damp sand (and certainly could make it in clay) but if it dried a little it would just collapse on the grub or pupa. Wait, they don't? I thought they compacted the substrates around them along with their feces and body fluids they secrete. Isn't that why they shrink in size and their gut becomes emptier than how it was before creating pupal cells? I think I've seen it on some references on internet too. Oh..I haven't thought about the moisture. Thank you for letting me know about this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucanus Posted August 9, 2012 Report Share Posted August 9, 2012 I have a D. tityus larva right now that seems to be ready to make pupal cells. I will place this one in sand to see how this one makes pupal cell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Kuhns Posted August 9, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 9, 2012 I have a D. tityus larva right now that seems to be ready to make pupal cells. I will place this one in sand to see how this one makes pupal cell How do you know its ready to make a cell? mabey that can help me to know if mine are ready. what specifically inferred it was ready? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucanus Posted August 9, 2012 Report Share Posted August 9, 2012 How do you know its ready to make a cell? mabey that can help me to know if mine are ready. what specifically inferred it was ready? Well...I've been keeping this one for 1 and a half year right now and this one has grown really yellow compare to others. It has also shrunken in size a bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dynastes Posted August 10, 2012 Report Share Posted August 10, 2012 Wait, they don't? I thought they compacted the substrates around them along with their feces and body fluids they secrete. Isn't that why they shrink in size and their gut becomes emptier than how it was before creating pupal cells? I think I've seen it on some references on internet too. Oh..I haven't thought about the moisture. Thank you for letting me know about this You're confusing cetonid pupal cells with dynastid cells. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucanus Posted August 10, 2012 Report Share Posted August 10, 2012 You're confusing cetonid pupal cells with dynastid cells. I am not actually. I've seen Dynastes tityus and D. grantii making coccoon like pupal cells which differs from any other Dynastidae I've kept. The coccoon looked quite similar to those of Mecynorrhinas so that's why I believe these species construct coccoons out of their surrounding mixed with their body fluids and feces. I've seen Trypoxylus constructing pupal cells by compressing the surroundings around them but the thickness of the pupal cell wall is way thinner than the Pupal cells of D. tityus and grnatii and are much more fragile. You have probably seen this too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dynastes Posted August 10, 2012 Report Share Posted August 10, 2012 I am not actually. I've seen Dynastes tityus and D. grantii making coccoon like pupal cells which differs from any other Dynastidae I've kept. The coccoon looked quite similar to those of Mecynorrhinas so that's why I believe these species construct coccoons out of their surrounding mixed with their body fluids and feces. I've seen Trypoxylus constructing pupal cells by compressing the surroundings around them but the thickness of the pupal cell wall is way thinner than the Pupal cells of D. tityus and grnatii and are much more fragile. You have probably seen this too. Dynastes pupal cells are made just like Allomyrina, Augosoma, Strategus, Xylotrupes, and every other dynastid. Mecynorhina have thin cell walls, not thick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucanus Posted August 10, 2012 Report Share Posted August 10, 2012 Dynastes pupal cells are made just like Allomyrina, Augosoma, Strategus, Xylotrupes, and every other dynastid. No they aren't. All of mine have created coccoon looking pupal cells that were clearly distinct from other Dynastidae I've kept. I don't know what you have observed in your breeding group but the ones I kept and the ones I saw online made coccoons that resembled a lot like those of Large Cetonidae, only thicker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucanus Posted August 10, 2012 Report Share Posted August 10, 2012 It seems that this argument will go on and on so I'll wait till I get my result from the setup I made today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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