Experts in phalacrognathus muelleri breeding, please help

[Max]

Hi!

I started this topic on bugnation forum about my problem, but because there is still no solution for it, I wonder if someone could help me here with an advice.

Briefly, I had one male and 2 female who were in breeding container like for about 3 months, but i did not see any "mating activity"

I was adviced that they likely mated already, so I put females into individual egg laying containers ( 35-40 l plastic boxes, compost at the bottom, several logs and chunks of wood (oak +beech) covered with a mixture of rotten mulched wood and a soil up to 25 cm in total). The wood logs were of different hardness from quite hard to softer decayed wood. Now I decided to have a look at it and could not find any sign of egg laying or larvae or not a single egg.

Females were still alive (quite active after i removed them) sitting at the bottom in a soil, they did not touch any food that i have been placing there during these 3 months, at least I have not seen it happens. Male is still alive too, eats a lot of fruits, kept separately. All now about 6 months old. They were kept at 21-23 at daytime and 17-18 at night. Male seems not interested in females.
Can anyone who bred these beetles advice me what could be the problem? It would be a really sad story to see them die for nothing(
I am thinking of buying/borrowing another male, if I would be able to find one soon...........

Thanks

 

[Shade of Eclipse]

I saw some Phalacrognathus muelleri while I was in Taiwan. I purchased an inexpensive minor pair to observe while I was there and they were pretty quick to mate. The male and female were both fresh adults about having metamorphosed a month before. From my experience, the male readily mated with the female as long as they were able to catch them female on the surface of the substrate. You could probably place them in a separate container with minimal substrate, a piece of food, and a few pieces of wood for them to cling onto. I was told that they do not require pieces of wood to lay eggs in as long as the substrate is composed of well rotted wood. If you're worried about them not mating, you can keep the male and females together without worrying about them injuring one another. They're nocturnal, so they'll be at the surface at night and buried in the substrate during the day. If they have not yet mated, they should while it's dark. If you dig up a female and place it on a piece of food, it should start eating if it's hungry.

 

[Max]

Thanks a lot,

i thought the same,

i put the male together with female into egg lying container and raised temperature for a few degrees following advice of other keeper

I was told that they can easily live for an year, so i still have a few months to wait for them to lay eggs

regards

 

[Dynastes]

Your adults have mated. The problem is the females does not like your egg laying setup. The moisture, level of decay or associated fungus are saying "Do not lay eggs here."

Try a different setup as it's usually better to start from scratch. The females should be chewing shallow pits into the logs or what you are providing is not adequate.

 

[a.ojala]

How do you know if your female has started to lay eggs? Do you have to dig through the sub and find the eggs? If so, will that disturb the female?

 

[Shade of Eclipse]

I was told by a breeder that they generally leave them alone for about a month except to occasionally mist the surface and replace food. After a month or more has passed or if the female spend a lot of time at the surface, they take the female out and then sift through the substrate and check the pieces of wood for signs of egg laying or larva habitation.

 

[Max]

Your adults have mated. The problem is the females does not like your egg laying setup. The moisture, level of decay or associated fungus are saying "Do not lay eggs here."

Try a different setup as it's usually better to start from scratch. The females should be chewing shallow pits into the logs or what you are providing is not adequate.

Hey all,

Thanks a lot for your help. I was not sure that they have mated before, as when I would look for them in an egg-laying container I would always find females far away from the male, which apparently could not get as deep as females into woodflakes (probably because of his mandibles?)

Now finally I have got them mated- I mean that I have seen it now. I followed by Shade's advice and placed female with male into a small container with some wood flakes and banana chunks mashed up with some water and honey on the top side. After a few hours of chasing male caught the female and then they mated for a few hours and then this would repeat again. Most importantly, I saw both, the female and male feeding a lot, as during all 6 months that they have been in my possession they would not touch any food I would leave for them.

It seems also strange that they would not lay any eggs, as I made a container according to advice from breeders, however, may be something is missing in there.

I had filled 45 l plastic boxes with 5 cm soil, about 5 oak logs of different stage of decay (from rather hard to quite soft), and covered it with rotten oak wood flakes. The temperature during day is about 25-26C and goes to about 18c at night (which could be a problem as these beetles are active at night). Another issue that they may need some daylight, or at least daylight kind of artificial light, as I keep all my beetles in a cupboard where a heater and a table lamp are controlled by

an electronic timer. I probable will change lighting to day light luminescent lamp tomorrow to avoid this issue.

Hopefully they will still lay some eggs

 

[Max]

How do you know if your female has started to lay eggs? Do you have to dig through the sub and find the eggs? If so, will that disturb the female?

With my cyclommatus stags I checked logs after 2 months. The female would chew shallow holes in a log and deposit eggs (bout 2-3 mm d) in there. Then she would chew rotten wood into small flakes and compact it around an egg. These quite easy to identify. After one more month the logs are carefully broken (split with screwdriver) and grubs are taken out and placed in separate container.

A stag beetle, Cyclommatus Metallifer, L2 (2nd instar) larva by Radio Ga Ga Broadcasts Again, on Flickr

 

[Mashku]

If i understand this right, your Substrate Soil) is only 5cm high ?

Do it so :

1. Compress 10 cm of fermented decayed wood flakes at the bottom of the con­tainer.

2. Place two or more middle decayed wood on the surface of the substrate.

3. Add regular decayed wood Flakes until the logs are 2/3rd covered.

P. muelleri comes from hills, they dont like high Temperature, 20 - 25 °C are maximum !

Lucanidae like high Humidity.

I think if your Betlles are active now, you can remove the Male from the breeding container.

What are you fedding them ?

Greez,

Mashku.

 

[Max]

Hey,

thanks guys, no substrate was about 25 cm in total,

5cm was the level of the soil at the bottom of the box which was followed by a few logs cowered by woodflakes.

Since they have mated there was no problem. I placed females back into breeding containers (2months) and checked about a couple weeks one log and found like 3 L1 grubs and one ovum.


Rainbow Stag Beetle, Phalacrognathus Muelleri, L1 grub by Radio Ga Ga Broadcasts Again, on Flickr

Rainbow Stag Beetle, Phalacrognathus Muelleri, ovum by Radio Ga Ga Broadcasts Again, on Flickr


my 2 main conclusions are

1st. It seems that hatched beetles (particularly males) need some time to mature sexually (got new pair of these and same story-they do not want to mate

same says this description

http://www.thegreenscorpion.com.au/showcon.toy?cid=808060

2nd beetles should be mated in a smaller containers and mating should be confirmed.

putting male on a top of a feeding female may help

Mashku if you are the same Mashku on Flickr, do you have any p.bison for sale? I sent you a flickr mail about it

Cheerios!!!

Hey,

thanks guys, no substrate was about 25 cm in total,

5cm was the level of the soil at the bottom of the box which was followed by a few logs cowered by woodflakes.

Since they have mated there was no problem. I placed females back into breeding containers (2months) and checked about a couple weeks one log and found like 3 L1 grubs and one ovum.


Rainbow Stag Beetle, Phalacrognathus Muelleri, L1 grub by Radio Ga Ga Broadcasts Again, on Flickr

Rainbow Stag Beetle, Phalacrognathus Muelleri, ovum by Radio Ga Ga Broadcasts Again, on Flickr


my 2 main conclusions are

1st. It seems that hatched beetles (particularly males) need some time to mature sexually (got new pair of these and same story-they do not want to mate

same says this description

http://www.thegreenscorpion.com.au/showcon.toy?cid=808060

2nd beetles should be mated in a smaller containers and mating should be confirmed.

putting male on a top of a feeding female may help

Mashku if you are the same Mashku on Flickr, do you have any p.bison for sale? I sent you a flickr mail about it

Cheerios!!!

I agree I think the sub. is too low. At least 5-6 INCHES.

Hey,

thanks guys, no substrate was about 25 cm in total,

5cm was the level of the soil at the bottom of the box which was followed by a few logs cowered by woodflakes.

Since they have mated there was no problem. I placed females back into breeding containers (2months) and checked about a couple weeks one log and found like 3 L1 grubs and one ovum.

Rainbow Stag Beetle, Phalacrognathus Muelleri, L1 grub by Radio Ga Ga Broadcasts Again, on Flickr

Rainbow Stag Beetle, Phalacrognathus Muelleri, ovum by Radio Ga Ga Broadcasts Again, on Flickr


my 2 main conclusions are

1st. It seems that hatched beetles (particularly males) need some time to mature sexually (got new pair of these and same story-they do not want to mate

same says this description

http://www.thegreenscorpion.com.au/showcon.toy?cid=808060

2nd beetles should be mated in a smaller containers and mating should be confirmed.

putting male on a top of a feeding female may help

Mashku if you are the same Mashku on Flickr, do you have any p.bison for sale? I sent you a flickr mail about it

Cheerios!!!