Gymnetis caseyi Substrate

[Tenevanica]

Hi! I've had this account for a while, but I just decided to start posting. Here's me first post on Beetleforum.

I'm looking into starting to breed G. caseyi, but I'm getting conflicting reports regarding what is an appropriate substrate for these guys. I know they need dead leaves in their substrate. Some people say the leaves must be decomposing, and nearly compost. Others say that any dried hardwood leaves will work. Will someone with experience breeding these tell me what works?

Also, I don't think they require decaying hardwood in their substrate. The substrate I'd provide for the larvae would simply be peat moss and ground leaves. If they need rotten wood, please tell me.

 

[Beetle-Experience]

Hi Tenevanica,

I have also heard of different styles of substrate for these guys. I use mostly rotten hardwood and mix in crushed, dried hardwood leaves and composted peat moss as a breeding substrate (don't forget to mix in larvae frass). For a rearing substrate, I use sifted, organic dirt and add handfuls of well-ground rotten hardwood abut once a week or so.

I've heard of people mixing in mulch pieces, whole dried leaves and other stuff, which may work just as well...

 

[Hisserdude]

Hi! I've had this account for a while, but I just decided to start posting. Here's me first post on Beetleforum.

I'm looking into starting to breed G. caseyi, but I'm getting conflicting reports regarding what is an appropriate substrate for these guys. I know they need dead leaves in their substrate. Some people say the leaves must be decomposing, and nearly compost. Others say that any dried hardwood leaves will work. Will someone with experience breeding these tell me what works?

Also, I don't think they require decaying hardwood in their substrate. The substrate I'd provide for the larvae would simply be peat moss and ground leaves. If they need rotten wood, please tell me.

Welcome buddy!

There are of course many recipes for beetle substrate, and I'm sure many of them work. As I've never tried keeping these I have no experience in what substrate mixes work, but I'll tell you what Orin suggests for flower beetles in his book "The Ultimate Guide To Breeding Beetles".

"50% or more of the mat should be rotten hardwood leaves. Leaves should have been on the ground for at least six months and should be crushed to the size of instant potato flakes. Leaves can not be ground too finely. Part maple is fine, but if leaves are almost entirely maple, tiny sickly beetles will result.

10% larval frass.

20% compost manure, leaf compost, or mushroom compost.

20% crushed decayed wood. Like leaves, wood can not be too finely crushed."

Hope this helps!

 

[Tenevanica]

Welcome buddy!

There are of course many recipes for beetle substrate, and I'm sure many of them work. As I've never tried keeping these I have no experience in what substrate mixes work, but I'll tell you what Orin suggests for flower beetles in his book "The Ultimate Guide To Breeding Beetles".

"50% or more of the mat should be rotten hardwood leaves. Leaves should have been on the ground for at least six months and should be crushed to the size of instant potato flakes. Leaves can not be ground too finely. Part maple is fine, but if leaves are almost entirely maple, tiny sickly beetles will result.

10% larval frass.

20% compost manure, leaf compost, or mushroom compost.

20% crushed decayed wood. Like leaves, wood can not be too finely crushed."

Hope this helps!

So wood should be added? I'll get some going using your Traeger pellet method. I have a freshly cut maple log available to me as well, but considering that their reaction to maple leaves, I probably shouldn't use that wood.

There was a short "husbandry" subsection on these guys in Orin's "Invertebrates for Exhibition" book, and it also said that heavily decayed leaves should be added. I wonder if dry leaves work. Otherwise I'll have to collect and sterilize leaves from a few specific places.

 

[Tenevanica]

Hi Tenevanica,

I have also heard of different styles of substrate for these guys. I use mostly rotten hardwood and mix in crushed, dried hardwood leaves and composted peat moss as a breeding substrate (don't forget to mix in larvae frass). For a rearing substrate, I use sifted, organic dirt and add handfuls of well-ground rotten hardwood abut once a week or so.

I've heard of people mixing in mulch pieces, whole dried leaves and other stuff, which may work just as well...

The dried leaves work for for you? Are the decayed in Any way? Thanks for the reply!

 

[Hisserdude]

So wood should be added? I'll get some going using your Traeger pellet method. I have a freshly cut maple log available to me as well, but considering that their reaction to maple leaves, I probably shouldn't use that wood.

There was a short "husbandry" subsection on these guys in Orin's "Invertebrates for Exhibition" novel, and it also said that heavily decayed leaves should be added. I wonder if dry leaves work. Otherwise I'll have to collect and sterilize leaves from a few specific places.

Yep, definitely should add some wood, though most of the substrate should be leaves. Dead dried leaves would be good I think, as long as they are sufficiently decayed and have been on the ground a good while. Just be sure to grind them up real good!

Hope you have success with your Gymnetis!

 

[Tenevanica]

I just mixed some substrate for this species up. I have wood fermenting now, but until then I have a substrate that they should survive and grow in. I'll post a picture, and you guys can tell me if it looks like it's mixed right. It's 50% hardwood leaves. 25% worm compost, (mostly worm frass) and 25% peat moss.

 

[Acro]

I'm looking into starting to breed G. caseyi, but I'm getting conflicting reports regarding what is an appropriate substrate for these guys. I know they need dead leaves in their substrate. Some people say the leaves must be decomposing, and nearly compost. Others say that any dried hardwood leaves will work. Will someone with experience breeding these tell me what works?

Did you just get larvae from me on Arachnoboards?

Either way, I normally use 100% dried hardwood leaves (with some added frass) that have been on the ground for at least a year. I don't always shred them that fine, but they are kept moist and continue to decompose.

However . . . I have kept them on wood substrate (from Peter -bugsincyberspace) when I ran out of leaves once, and they developed fine.

Also, I've kept them on pure coconut fiber for the first few instars, then mixed in dried leaves, all developed fine as well.

G. caseyi seem to be a very easy and flexible species to work with.

Good Luck!

 

[Tenevanica]

Did you just get larvae from me on Arachnoboards?

Either way, I normally use 100% dried hardwood leaves (with some added frass) that have been on the ground for at least a year. I don't always shred them that fine, but they are kept moist and continue to decompose.

However . . . I have kept them on wood substrate (from Peter -bugsincyberspace) when I ran out of leaves once, and they developed fine.

Also, I've kept them on pure coconut fiber for the first few instars, then mixed in dried leaves, all developed fine as well.

G. caseyi seem to be a very easy and flexible species to work with.

Good Luck!

Yes, you were my source.

I'm glad to hear they tolerate a wide range of conditions! It's so unlike many beetles, and it's a relief to keep something that doesn't require a perfectly mixed substrate.

 

[Acro]

Yes I was supprised myself. I would strongly suggest the laves, either solely, or at least, mixed into whatever substrate. Also be sure to add fish/dog/cat food to for the grubs a few times a week.

Good Luck and PM me if you ever have questions!

 

[ultimatejourney]

I'm glad I found this thread - I was just about to ask about substrate for this species as well. Do the leaves have to be hardwood specifically?

 

[Hisserdude]

I'm glad I found this thread - I was just about to ask about substrate for this species as well. Do the leaves have to be hardwood specifically?

Yeah, hardwood is what you want to go for. BTW, a question for all you tree people, is there any other tree type besides hardwood or softwood? And softwood means conifers, correct?

 

[Tenevanica]

Yeah, hardwood is what you want to go for. BTW, a question for all you tree people, is there any other tree type besides hardwood or softwood? And softwood means conifers, correct?

Softwood means non-hardwood. I can't remember what defines a hardwood though. It probably has something to do with the makeup of the tissues in the wood. I'm not a botanist.

It's a bit confusing actually. Balsa, the softest wood I can think of, is a hardwood. I don't think eucalyptus is a hardwood, nor are aspens. Again, I could be totally wrong about all of this. You should find another source to back me up.

 

[lovebugfarm]

Im pretty sure conifers are different then soft wood. Im not sure if theres a fourth option but the way nature works im sure its out there.

 

[lovebugfarm]

Im hopeing to rear these guys one day. When i read up on them it seemed like they used a deep bin of 100% compost. Probably with leaves added. Do the larvae need to be seperated from the breeding chamber or if the substrate is deep enough like 6-8 inches should it be fine? I heard they arnt canabalistic so should be fine right? So in therory if breeding and rearing substrate are similar enough it could be done in one container. Also how important is a light cycle to beetles? Most of my inverts are raised in a closet should i put them in a proper aquarium when i get some?

 

[Tenevanica]

Im hopeing to rear these guys one day. When i read up on them it seemed like they used a deep bin of 100% compost. Probably with leaves added. Do the larvae need to be seperated from the breeding chamber or if the substrate is deep enough like 6-8 inches should it be fine? I heard they arnt canabalistic so should be fine right? So in therory if breeding and rearing substrate are similar enough it could be done in one container. Also how important is a light cycle to beetles? Most of my inverts are raised in a closet should i put them in a proper aquarium when i get some?

Mine do fine in four inches of 50% crushed leaves, 25% compost soil, and 25% peat moss. The larvae are not cannibalistic, and do fine in any light conditions. They live their larval stage underground anyway. I have many pupae, but none have turned in to adults.

Also, leaves must be added to the substrate. They will not develop correctly without dead hardwood leaves, and lots of them.

 

[lovebugfarm]

Im more concerned about the beetles needing a photo period for breeding. Im sure they are noctural like most things and they will constantly be in an alert/active state if always in darkness possibly shortening thier life span.

Can you explain the need for larval frass for breeding? Is this common for many beetles?

I have to many leaves so i should be set

Also will these setups work for c. gloriosa?

 

[Tenevanica]

Im more concerned about the beetles needing a photo period for breeding. Im sure they are noctural like most things and they will constantly be in an alert/active state if always in darkness possibly shortening thier life span.

Can you explain the need for larval frass for breeding? Is this common for many beetles?

I have to many leaves so i should be set

Also will these setups work for c. gloriosa?

I don't think they need photo-periods. I think that their day-night cycle is based on an internal clock instead of the light level. I see this with other insects. I doesn't matter how dark it is, they always come out at the same time every night.

The adults won't lay eggs in the substrate unless it has larval frass in it. This probably tells the adult beetle that the substrate is suitable. I don't know how common this requirement is among beetles.

 

[lovebugfarm]

Thanks that puts my mind to ease some.

Good luck with your beetles i hope they give you a million billion larvae.