Importing natives?

Skink

Skink

L2
I'm curious as to the legality of importing native species from out of country. I'm already fully aware that importing non-native species is completely illegal, but I've been unable to find a clear cut answer as to species that are native to the states already. I'm really interested in some of the work that has been done with our native species in Japan, and I'm already planning on getting some Pacman frogs legally exported from there. I've also seen people bringing Lucanus elaphus back in to the states from Japan, but I have no idea how they went about that, so I am wary to say it was a legal process.

Anyone have a clean cut answer on that, or at least the ability to illuminate rather than speculate?

 
technically, it would be illegal to have a US native imported from Japan to the US unless you have USDA PPQ permits. I've done plenty of work with insects at museums and zoos to learn the legalities.

I would imagine it would be much simpler to wait for the insect you're looking for to be in season in the US instead of ordering the animal from outside the country. Cheaper too.

 
Yeah it wouldn't be legal. The main issue is they don't want insects to be transported unless you have a permit. Even if an insect is native to your state you still aren't legally allowed to have that species shipped to you from another state.

 
Wait, having native species cross state lines is illegal? Is this a part of the Lacey Act or something very similar? That.. honestly gives me second thoughts about ever selling anything I raise, I would prefer to operate within the law regardless of how ridiculous it is. Perhaps I'll only vend from the local reptile show should the time ever come.

Thank you for the more concise answer guys, every time I tried to find it, I came across nothing but language referring to invasive species.

 
This has some nice exceptions though so don't lose all hope. Lucanus elaphus for example is perfectly fine to ship across state lines, no permit needed. This is because the larvae are known to only feed on wood which isn't considered plant material. Dynastes on the other hand isn't the same. The USDA claims they feed on live plant roots so they require permits.

 
The USDA claims a lot of things. I wish there was a more knowledgeable authority to call them out on blatant mistakes like that. Stupid blanket bans and their interfering with my conscious grumblegrumble etc

 
Skink said:
The USDA claims a lot of things. I wish there was a more knowledgeable authority to call them out on blatant mistakes like that. Stupid blanket bans and their interfering with my conscious grumblegrumble etc
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You really can't blame the USDA for such strict regulations. There have been WAY too many instances where exotic insects have proven man wrong by defying the weather or having a diet entirely different from what was speculated. Recently I heard about a longhorn found in the northeast that was from Japan(not the Asian longhorn btw). Scientists said that it fed on rotting wood. Guess what? Turns out it eats live wood and is now destroying trees and beginning to spread. And there are many beetles in Dynastinae that are considered crop pests or have the potential.

Jordan, where did you get that information regarding Lucanus elaphus? It's not too often I hear about beetles being exempt from PPQ permits(the few I know for sure are, aside from supers and meals, aquatic beetles and bess beetles).

 
I can blame them for having poor information. Ignorance of available information is never anyone's fault but the individuals, and that it should harm or hinder anyone else is idiocy at its finest. I'm fully aware of invasive species and the issues they cause. However, I am also keen on keeper rights and I am not a fan of blanket bans or assumptions. They are lazy, dismissive, and harmful.

Using the beetle hobby as an example, imagine if they were better evaluated and banned species by species instead of as a whole - the hobby would be a lot bigger than it is. Things could even be handled at the state level populations could only establish in small pockets and microclimates. Instead, we get federal legislation that makes taking natives over state lines illegal.

If they were the ones who banned it, how can I NOT blame them? I'm not faulting them, but blame is certainly deserved. I'm not here to debate that. I'm very prickly about these things, sorry.

 
Skink..I like the way you think! I wanted to do some type of petition on it; bringing it to the attention of the white house etc. but feel I would have no backing.It's a shame that they do cast such a vast blindness into every single individual species. I think their issue like anything is taxing etc. Also, unfortunately some idiots would probably do illegal activities with it like beetle fights and then you would have PETA pop in and yada yada yada.
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You know all this illegal stuff is illegal... but where is the enforcement? there are hundreds of websites were people are devoted to selling insects and shipping them across state lines on a daily basis but there seems to be absolutely no repercussions. yea its illegal but no one is doing anything to stop it so whats the point of it being illegal in the first place?

 
All the native and marine snails in the local pet shops are illegal with exception of the "mystery snail" Ampularia bridgesii and even this species requires permits for interstate transport.

 
Forgive me if I am just saying something stupid due to this is most likely already understood in your minds and not stated on this post, but the issue with the USDA in regards to importing native species isn't so much the species but prehaps the non-native bacterium, fungus, and fungi associated with the other country doing the rearing.

 
Bacterium and fungi spores are transported by human travelers every day in astronomical numbers so It must be the species.

 
Generalzero,

I support you, but it seems no one else on this forum wants to try to get the laws revised on certain imports, as I already posted about it. Oh well.

 
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