help me figure out what went wrong?

[sus]

Well today I found out my dynastes granti died while checking and I really need to do a crack down of what I did wrong. Im pretty bummed out too because that was the first one I had gotten and got a little attached. Im pretty sure it was an issue regarding the replacement of my substrate. But anyways heres my set up and care.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/374451999103647745/422873153870757898/image.jpg larger box is to maintain heat. I used to use a heater pad but I stopped

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/374451999103647745/422873191992655872/image.jpg heres the inside

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/374451999103647745/422873214587502592/image.jpg 4 inches down

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/374451999103647745/422873241632112650/image.jpg no holes, theres enough circulation though

this is what her previous container looked like https://gyazo.com/a79983456fecf2b9a7be83d79d521051 it was way too shallow and apparently had too much air flowing through. This is where I was experiencing issues and when she became kinda soft.

care issues:

• I make sure the substrate is moist pretty much every week. there was a couple weeks where I had forgotten and it may have gotten a little dry.
• I HAVE NOT CHANGED THE SUBSTRATE AT ALL SINCE GETTING HER! I have had her since december! i think this was the issue because I had gotten confused with when I was supposed to change her substrate.
• I used the simple edible substrate from BICS and have not tried using the oak substrate
• there was a weird smell a week back... my whole container smelled like expo marker and I still dont know why it did.

So my hypothesis is that I was a little bit foolish to have not gotten at least 1 good book on rhino beetle care and that I had no idea how or when to change the substrate. Air circulation was fine, I was periodically checking on all of my beetles, there was no mites or parasites, the substrate had the right amount of moisture, and I mixed the soil around a bit to release any of the gas build up (recommended by peter).

Anyways, if you think anything else looks funky about my set up and/or agree with the substrate issue lemme know. thanks

 

[Ratmosphere]

What stage was the larva? Substrate is changed when you notice large amounts of frass AKA poop in the substrate. Make sure the substrate is moist but not dripping wet if you squeeze water out of it. People overdo the watering but they don't need AS MUCH as it may seem. And the air holes situation, I'd never block off that much airflow. If anything I'd probably one or two bigger sized air holes. Die offs are normal in nature and it happens often. If your substrate was smelling weird, it could have something to do with the death of your larvae.

 

[sus]

Substrate wasnt too wet (did that little squeez test) and I honestly dont think I had that much frass.

 

[Garin]

It's sort of interesting that you had the same substrate since December and it wasn't full of frass. I just checked on some of my D granti that I had changed one month ago and it was full of frass already and I had to change it.

D granti grow really fast and they are eating machines, at least in my limited experience. Lucanus and Chrysina seem to eat much less, at least for me. 4 months with the same substrate and not full of frass seems odd, especially since it probably grew a lot in that time.

I also wonder how broken down the substrate became after 4 months. I'll let the experts comment on that one. I generally have to change the substrate before that so I'm not sure how broken down the substrate would become in an environment with moisture and frass. As you know, moisture and frass naturally decays the substrate. Since the substrate is already very decomposed, it continues to decompose and eventually becomes like soil with not much nutritional value. However, I have no idea how long that takes and if that was even a factor.

So these are just ideas but it could have nothing to do it with it. Sorry if that sounds vague. Also, like Ratmosphere has mentioned, sometimes things just die. It's especially hard to know since you only had one. If you had 2 and they both died, I would strongly think something was wrong. But 1 could be a fluke.

It's definitely not good that the substrate started to smell like expo marker. If that happens again, definitely change the substrate or you can try sterilizing it with high heat and see if the smell goes away once it cools. The substrate should have a nice earthy smell, like a good soil.

I would definitely not beat yourself about it. Stuff happens and it's always a learning experience. I know it's really sad and disappointing when something dies but it's part of the hobby. The challenges and difficulties make it that much more satisfying and exciting when you have success.

 

[Bugboy3092]

It could be that the larva never truly recovered from the flaccid state, sometimes they just never recover from things like that. Was it at the top of the container when you found it? Plastic wrap definitely isn’t a good choice for a lid, especially if there aren’t air holes (plastic wrap adheres much more tightly than a plastic lid). Of course, it may just be bad luck, as it does happen.

 

[arizonablue]

Honestly I think you're overthinking the whole thing way too much.

The insulated box isn't necessary and may be doing the opposite of what you want -- blocking airflow and basically fermenting/cooking the contents. I keep D. grantii in sturdy plastic 32-oz containers from the grocery store (basically like a tall Tupperware) with a few holes drilled in the lid, and they sit on a shelf and I ignore them. I'll check on them about once a week to make sure the larvae are still alive and the substrate looks moist, and around once a month I'll freshen up the sub and remove some of the frass and put in more substrate. Larvae don't really need to be babysat and trying to monitor them all the time usually stresses them out instead of helping them.

If the substrate smells, it's growing bacteria and is no good for your larvae. Healthy substrate should only have a vague smell, like potting soil or damp earth. Sub full of frass smells a little different, but you get to know the difference. If it smells wrong in a way that makes you wrinkle your nose, it's probably gone bad and should be thrown out.

 

[AlexW]

Honestly I think you're overthinking the whole thing way too much.

The insulated box isn't necessary and may be doing the opposite of what you want -- blocking airflow and basically fermenting/cooking the contents. I keep D. grantii in sturdy plastic 32-oz containers from the grocery store (basically like a tall Tupperware) with a few holes drilled in the lid, and they sit on a shelf and I ignore them. I'll check on them about once a week to make sure the larvae are still alive and the substrate looks moist, and around once a month I'll freshen up the sub and remove some of the frass and put in more substrate. Larvae don't really need to be babysat and trying to monitor them all the time usually stresses them out instead of helping them.

If the substrate smells, it's growing bacteria and is no good for your larvae. Healthy substrate should only have a vague smell, like potting soil or damp earth. Sub full of frass smells a little different, but you get to know the difference. If it smells wrong in a way that makes you wrinkle your nose, it's probably gone bad and should be thrown out.

I think the Ultimate Guide says that ventilation should be minimal, and a non-airtight lid is enough. It also said that lack of oxygen is due to decay of substrate sucking oxygen. Many bugs can live for long periods in small tight containers without losing air, so I suspect the sub was to blame

 

[AlexW]

Oh, and the Guide also says that seemingly plentiful food can often only be a tiny surface layer.

 

[sus]

Honestly I think you're overthinking the whole thing way too much.

The insulated box isn't necessary and may be doing the opposite of what you want -- blocking airflow and basically fermenting/cooking the contents. I keep D. grantii in sturdy plastic 32-oz containers from the grocery store (basically like a tall Tupperware) with a few holes drilled in the lid, and they sit on a shelf and I ignore them. I'll check on them about once a week to make sure the larvae are still alive and the substrate looks moist, and around once a month I'll freshen up the sub and remove some of the frass and put in more substrate. Larvae don't really need to be babysat and trying to monitor them all the time usually stresses them out instead of helping them.

If the substrate smells, it's growing bacteria and is no good for your larvae. Healthy substrate should only have a vague smell, like potting soil or damp earth. Sub full of frass smells a little different, but you get to know the difference. If it smells wrong in a way that makes you wrinkle your nose, it's probably gone bad and should be thrown out.

I actually asked peter recently and this actually ended up being the issue because on top of this I was using a heater and peter said it basically caused the methane to rise and suffocated. And yes I agree, I definitely didnt need to check them up as much as I did

 

[sus]

It's sort of interesting that you had the same substrate since December and it wasn't full of frass. I just checked on some of my D granti that I had changed one month ago and it was full of frass already and I had to change it.

D granti grow really fast and they are eating machines, at least in my limited experience. Lucanus and Chrysina seem to eat much less, at least for me. 4 months with the same substrate and not full of frass seems odd, especially since it probably grew a lot in that time.

I also wonder how broken down the substrate became after 4 months. I'll let the experts comment on that one. I generally have to change the substrate before that so I'm not sure how broken down the substrate would become in an environment with moisture and frass. As you know, moisture and frass naturally decays the substrate. Since the substrate is already very decomposed, it continues to decompose and eventually becomes like soil with not much nutritional value. However, I have no idea how long that takes and if that was even a factor.

So these are just ideas but it could have nothing to do it with it. Sorry if that sounds vague. Also, like Ratmosphere has mentioned, sometimes things just die. It's especially hard to know since you only had one. If you had 2 and they both died, I would strongly think something was wrong. But 1 could be a fluke.

It's definitely not good that the substrate started to smell like expo marker. If that happens again, definitely change the substrate or you can try sterilizing it with high heat and see if the smell goes away once it cools. The substrate should have a nice earthy smell, like a good soil.

I would definitely not beat yourself about it. Stuff happens and it's always a learning experience. I know it's really sad and disappointing when something dies but it's part of the hobby. The challenges and difficulties make it that much more satisfying and exciting when you have success.

When I asked peter about the substrate he told me that the ammount of substrate I had her in was enough to feed 5 larvae at once! This is also substrate I bought right from him as well.

 

[sus]

It could be that the larva never truly recovered from the flaccid state, sometimes they just never recover from things like that. Was it at the top of the container when you found it? Plastic wrap definitely isn’t a good choice for a lid, especially if there aren’t air holes (plastic wrap adheres much more tightly than a plastic lid). Of course, it may just be bad luck, as it does happen.

it was def the combination of using a heater i used to use and the tight plastic seal, suffocated her from the amount of methane and the lack of air.

 

[Garin]

Yeah, trying unconventional things can be tricky. Probably the most conservative and safest way is just put the larvae in a 32 oz deli container with a few tiny pin holes in the lid and you are good to go. I think even if the room gets a little cold, it's fine. If you want to keep a small room from getting too cold, you could put a small electric heater in a small room like a bathroom or closet, and set the thermostat to 65 and it won't use that much energy even if you leave it on all the time. When it kicks on, it won't take long to heat up the small room and then it will turn off. I have done this a few times with other stuff and I never saw an increase in my electric bill and the room was always at the ideal temp.

I think trying something "new" is fun and a good experience, so I encourage it. However, like most new things, there is a much higher rate of something going wrong than the more conventional ways of doing stuff that has been proven to work. But don't let that stop you from trying new stuff. I have discovered some pretty cool tricks trying new stuff as well as many failures. Keep it up.