Goliath Beetles: Is this seller legal/for real?

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aquakej

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I have a seller who claims to be selling all kinds of Goliathus sp. from within the US. I know these are native to Africa, so is this even legal in the United States? He claims that his shipping company takes care of all the paperwork, etc., and that I don't have to do anything but sign for the package.

I'd love to have some, of course, but don't want to get in trouble.

His name is Arnold Bois, and now he wants paid via Western Union. Sigh....

 
Did you meat him on the forum or another social media? Unless you have a permit, it's illegal. He's probably just trying to get a quick sell.

 
I was talking to some people who claim to be selling exotic beetles, but they are all just US fronts for the company in Africa :/ and then they want to do wire transfers to their breeding centers in Cameroon and I'm not willing to risk it... It is illegal to have foreign beetles, stick bugs and just about all insects that eat plants. There are some places like Rhinobeetle.co.uk that will ship the beetles they have to the us, but because of the pound-dollar exchange they are quite expensive :/ still illegal, just not enforced. I think it is technically illegal to ship some live bugs across state borders as well... But we do it all the time.

To get a permit to keep exotic beetles, you pretty much have to be a part of a museum or research center or something like that.

But, either you follow the rules or you don't
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I think the biggest concern is scammers or things being quarantined (and killed) during shipping rather than getting in trouble with the authorities. Rhinobeetle says they have never had a problem shipping to the US.

 
Wait, are we talking about live beetles/larvae or dead speciemens?

For live beetles, you need a permit and the filling paperwork in the US will be overwhelming (even if you are a part of an institution). Plus most of the online 'sellers' are scammers based in Africa as noted above. I would stay away from sellers asking for wire transfers and Western Union transfers. If anything, try to work with someone that has a verified PayPal account.

For dead specimens, I do not know of any paperwork/permit required. It is known that people, museums and zoos breed these beetles so there are always dead specimens in traffic. Shipping dead insects is completely legall, unless they are included in CITES as protected/endangered species. I am unaware if Goliathus are in CITES appendix. I believe not.
There are many good and reliable ebay sellers that have nice Goliathus specimens for collection.

 
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There are legal importers/brokers of live beetles + other insects and arthropods in the USA, but only will sell to you if you have your permits. All other operations are plainly illegal.

 
And never ever pay via Western Union. Anyone who asks to be paid via W.U. is a scammer.

W.U. is a good way to transfer money to your relatives, but not for merchandise / services.

 
wizentrop said:
For dead specimens, I do not know of any paperwork/permit required.
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You might want to look into the requirements of the Fish and Wildlife Service here. http://www.fws.gov/le/declaration-form-3-177.html

Markelangelo said:
There are some places like Rhinobeetle.co.uk that will ship the beetles they have to the us, but because of the pound-dollar exchange they are quite expensive :/ still illegal, just not enforced. I think it is technically illegal to ship some live bugs across state borders as well... But we do it all the time.
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You might want to read this: http://www.ice.gov/news/releases/0906/090625philadelphia.htm

"The investigation resulted in the arrest, guilty plea and sentencing of Marc T. Dilullo, of Mohnton, Pa. Dilullo pleaded guilty in federal court to the purchase and receipt of a foreign package containing prohibited live insects without a permit and was sentenced to three years probation and a $5,000 fine."

As for the "US Based Goliathus seller", I'm pretty sure that if you agree a price you will find he asks you to send the money to his "sister" or his "business partner" somewhere outside of the US, probably the Cameroon. If you send any money in this way you will lose it - end of story.

 
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Thanks Matt for posting! Someone is always going to get caught, but the part that makes me upset is:

""Some may consider these to be nothing more than large beetles, but if let loose to multiply in our environment, they could pose serious threats to our nation's agriculture industry at a critical point in our nation's economic recovery," said Al Martocci, CBP Area Port Director for the Port of Philadelphia. "The Mohnton postal workers did an exceptional job in immediately alerting federal officials, and CBP agriculture specialists quickly mitigated any threats these giant Asian beetles posed. We're grateful that the Smithsonian Institution can now find some positive benefit from a group of formerly dangerous insect pests."

Their ignorance about these beetles is quite irritating. Unless we start eating dead, rotting wood I don't feel that most of these beetles are going to be able to cause any harm. These aren't the dangerous ones... There are beetles that need to be kept away, but not these ones... But I suppose there is not much that we can do right now about it
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the science part of our government is run by politions and businessmen, not scientists. If anyone wants proof just go watch End of the Line, it's on hulu for free I think. It's actually a good movie! Alright! I'm finished ranting
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Matt, your link brought me to a bunch of forms... not very informative. I did, however, take a walk in their website, and found the following:

§ 14.24 Scientific specimens.Except for wildlife requiring a permit pursuant to parts 16, 17, 18, 21, 22 or 23 of this subchapter, dead, preserved, dried, or embedded scientific specimens or parts thereof, imported or exported by accredited scientists or accredited scientific institutions for taxonomic or systematic research purposes may enter or exit through any U.S. Customs port, or may be shipped through the international mail system. Provided, that this exception will not apply to any specimens or parts thereof taken as a result of sport hunting.
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Dead and preserved insect specimens for collection purposes fall under scientific use. No need for permits unless protected by a natioanl law or mentioned in CITES appendix.

See also (5) and (6) here:
http://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-idx?c=ecfr&SID=70b6ce94147d685d0a3861effcd86911&rgn=div5&view=text&node=50:1.0.1.2.8&idno=50#50:1.0.1.2.8.9.7.1

(sorry, I tried to paste the table several times and it ended up as gibberish)

 
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Yes, I am talking about live beetles in this case.

However, USFW caught me one time importing "commercial quantities" of dead insects, and required me to obtain a Wildlife Import Permit.

Thank you very much, everyone, for confirming my suspicious about this deal. Yes, I think I did find him on insect net.com. I know people from Africa on there are generally scammers, but since this one said they were located in the US, I thought maybe......

However, asking to wire the $ via Western Union sent up a huge red flag. Plus, this guy wasn't answering some of my questions. Another man claiming to be selling Hercules beetles within the US wanted me to send the funds directly to a "school for blind children" in Africa. Right. :\

Oh well, Dynastes granti it is!!! Sigh.

 
"imported or exported by accredited scientists or accredited scientific institutions"

There's the catch - from what I have read of the experiences of US Collectors, there is no way a "private individual" will get to be classed as an "accredited scientist".

Live imports of beetles seems to be the same, unless you are a zoo or other institution along these lines, forget it.

 
thats 100 percent scam!!!! he probably dont even have any goliath beetles.. dont be fooled!

he accepts only western union because if he scams, you CANT DO ANYTHING!

just dont do it man lol i know a guy who somehow have live goliah breeding pairs in arachnoboards...

 
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