@Goliathus, not super related but my D.tityus also do not have substrate to the top of their container- should these be packed too?
Chrysina pupation question
- Thread starter the_cream_man
- Start date
Goliathus
Pachnoda
I've found that tityus larvae, if making pupal cells in small containers that aren't completely filled, will usually pack the substrate to one side so that it's firmly in contact with the lid. Chrysina larvae sometimes do this too, though it seems that they feel more secure if the substrate is filled to the top to begin with. A less than full container might possibly lead to excessive wandering, especially when they're preparing to make cells.
Here's a photo of my woodi rearing / pupation containers (5.5 oz). I used 9 oz containers in previous generations, but they grow and make cells in the 5 oz just the same. I have 80 of them stacked in a 10 gallon tank. As you can see, they've mixed up the clay layer with the flake soil rather thoroughly. It's been nearly 6 weeks since I added the clay. I'm not sure how many of them have made cells yet - maybe around 40-50% -
Thanks for sharing your set-up! Do you have any ventilation holes in these at all? Also, love that you've got it down to 5oz cups, I thought I was pushing it with 16oz!
ALSO:
omg! I just checked and it looks like I already have one forming a pupal cell-- I think the pressure was a winner for sure
(The picture didn't come out well so I upped the exposure to show the soil discoloration around it)
omg! I just checked and it looks like I already have one forming a pupal cell-- I think the pressure was a winner for sure
(The picture didn't come out well so I upped the exposure to show the soil discoloration around it)
Yellowfin2na
L1
Man those look great. If those are 5oz then I guess my containers do look larger than 10oz. I came up with the 10oz by taking measurments and using a volume calculator.
None of mine are mixing the clay with the flake soil from what I can see.
Out of the 80 how many are you expecting to fail pupation?
None of mine are mixing the clay with the flake soil from what I can see.
Out of the 80 how many are you expecting to fail pupation?
Goliathus
Pachnoda
the_cream_man
Thanks for sharing your set-up! Do you have any ventilation holes in these at all? Also, love that you've got it down to 5oz cups, I thought I was pushing it with 16oz!
Yes - 5 pin holes for ventilation, in the lids. This prevents the entry of fungus gnats, and allows for passive enough ventilation that the substrate won't eventually dry out over a period of months. Some exchange of air also slowly occurs at the junction of the cup and lid, since these containers don't actually seal completely air-tight.
the_cream_man
ALSO:omg! I just checked and it looks like I already have one forming a pupal cell-- I think the pressure was a winner for sure (The picture didn't come out well so I upped the exposure to show the soil discoloration around it)
Yes - when you see that the larva has created a hollow and there is a noticeably dark ring around the edges, that's usually a good indicator that it has settled down to make a pupal cell. C. beyeri and gloriosa nearly always use the container walls as one side (and/or the bottom) of their cells, but woodi usually makes a fully enclosed cell. In smaller containers though, woodi will use the walls more often than if in a more spacious area.
Yellowfin2na
Man those look great. If those are 5oz then I guess my containers do look larger than 10oz. I came up with the 10oz by taking measurments and using a volume calculator.
None of mine are mixing the clay with the flake soil from what I can see.
The size of the containers definitely has an influence on how much they mix together the two substrates. In 16 oz cups, the mixing isn't always as thorough. But, mixing it all together doesn't seem to affect larval growth, and anyway, by the point at which I add the clay soil, the larvae are pretty much at full size and nearly done feeding.
Out of the 80 how many are you expecting to fail pupation?
In the previous generation (9 oz containers), I had less than 10% pupation failures. I'm hoping for a similar result with the current group. Interestingly, I also reared a couple of groups (woodi) together in 10 gal. tanks, and had a huge die off of pre-pupae / pupae. What few beetles did manage to survive and eclose in that type of set-up, were mostly badly malformed. I suspect that too much moisture gradually seeped down into the clay layer, where the pupal cells were built. That's why I'm now rearing Chrysina larvae individually in small containers - it's a lot easier to keep the humidity within a certain range this way. I think that any container of 16 oz or smaller should be ok. It's only in something considerably larger, with a lot of substrate depth, where excess moisture issues can occur. Even if the moisture level of both the flake soil and clay soil seems ideal when you initially set it up, unfortunately, moisture always gravitates downward eventually, and in a large-sized enclosure, the ultimately leads to drier flake soil sitting on top of a clay layer that's absorbed a lot of the moisture that was originally evenly distributed in the substrate above it.
Thanks for sharing your set-up! Do you have any ventilation holes in these at all? Also, love that you've got it down to 5oz cups, I thought I was pushing it with 16oz!
Yes - 5 pin holes for ventilation, in the lids. This prevents the entry of fungus gnats, and allows for passive enough ventilation that the substrate won't eventually dry out over a period of months. Some exchange of air also slowly occurs at the junction of the cup and lid, since these containers don't actually seal completely air-tight.
the_cream_man
ALSO:omg! I just checked and it looks like I already have one forming a pupal cell-- I think the pressure was a winner for sure
(The picture didn't come out well so I upped the exposure to show the soil discoloration around it)Yes - when you see that the larva has created a hollow and there is a noticeably dark ring around the edges, that's usually a good indicator that it has settled down to make a pupal cell. C. beyeri and gloriosa nearly always use the container walls as one side (and/or the bottom) of their cells, but woodi usually makes a fully enclosed cell. In smaller containers though, woodi will use the walls more often than if in a more spacious area.
Yellowfin2na
Man those look great. If those are 5oz then I guess my containers do look larger than 10oz. I came up with the 10oz by taking measurments and using a volume calculator.
None of mine are mixing the clay with the flake soil from what I can see.
The size of the containers definitely has an influence on how much they mix together the two substrates. In 16 oz cups, the mixing isn't always as thorough. But, mixing it all together doesn't seem to affect larval growth, and anyway, by the point at which I add the clay soil, the larvae are pretty much at full size and nearly done feeding.
Out of the 80 how many are you expecting to fail pupation?
In the previous generation (9 oz containers), I had less than 10% pupation failures. I'm hoping for a similar result with the current group. Interestingly, I also reared a couple of groups (woodi) together in 10 gal. tanks, and had a huge die off of pre-pupae / pupae. What few beetles did manage to survive and eclose in that type of set-up, were mostly badly malformed. I suspect that too much moisture gradually seeped down into the clay layer, where the pupal cells were built. That's why I'm now rearing Chrysina larvae individually in small containers - it's a lot easier to keep the humidity within a certain range this way. I think that any container of 16 oz or smaller should be ok. It's only in something considerably larger, with a lot of substrate depth, where excess moisture issues can occur. Even if the moisture level of both the flake soil and clay soil seems ideal when you initially set it up, unfortunately, moisture always gravitates downward eventually, and in a large-sized enclosure, the ultimately leads to drier flake soil sitting on top of a clay layer that's absorbed a lot of the moisture that was originally evenly distributed in the substrate above it.
Yellowfin2na
L1
I am happy to report that all three of my Chrysina Gloriosa have formed pupil chambers. The Chrysina Woodii have not formed anything yet but the wandering has stopped.
Most of my Woodii are over 4 grams with some reaching into the high 6 gram range. I am curious to know how much larger they will grow before they start to turn.
Most of my Woodii are over 4 grams with some reaching into the high 6 gram range. I am curious to know how much larger they will grow before they start to turn.
Bug slayer
Pupa
Would you sell any of the adults
Yellowfin2na
L1
I am sorry my friend I am new to the game and will be utilizing the adults to establish a new generation for my hobby. You may want to check with Scottbot84 as I think he has a lot of larvae and may be willing to part with a few adults.
Hey, I would hate to resurrect a dead thread (I don't think we're there quite yet?... It hasn't been ridiculously long), but I have to ask. Where has everyone been getting the clay they use for their successful pupation? Do you guys buy it? Or do you go collect it from somewhere? Also, how long (in your experience) has their diapause taken? I've had some that are in cells they constructed, and they're clearly alive and look like healthy L3 grubs shortly before pupation, but it's been pushing six months now that some of them have been in the pupal cells. Are they gone? Or is this still within the range or normal diapause?
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Goliathus
Pachnoda
Yes - Chrysina tend to have a very long larval diapause after making their cells - well over half a year. Following this, the actual pre-pupal and pupal stages aren't particularly long.
What species are you working with?
I’m working with both beyeri and woodii. I’ve run out of the sandy/clay soil mix and my woodii are going to be pupating soon, so I wanted to know if there was an online source. But the beyeri are the ones pupating now, and still in diapause
Dynastes TItyus hunter
Cerambycidae
You can buy the clay from here.
ttps://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01L11YDQ8/ref=as_li_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=B01L11YDQ8&linkCode=as2&tag=bugsincyber03-20&linkId=5c6f96133a1928ea6667101b85cb1b58
I've been using that product.
ttps://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01L11YDQ8/ref=as_li_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=B01L11YDQ8&linkCode=as2&tag=bugsincyber03-20&linkId=5c6f96133a1928ea6667101b85cb1b58
I've been using that product.
Thanks for the link. I would assume that's the BIC affiliate link, so I'll buy some from there. I also saw that the Insect Brothers have their own clay substrate so I'll likely buy some of that as well, just to have plenty for the future. Thank you
Yellowfin2na
L1
I am in Texas and we have clay soil. I used the clay from my back yard and it is working fine. I made sure to dig down over a foot so in an area that I know hasn't been exposed to pesticides.
So far it looks like all of my larva except two are in chambers finally.
So far it looks like all of my larva except two are in chambers finally.
That makes sense. Where I live we have no clay soil whatsoever so I’m doomed to order it online, but I’ve discovered that mixing well washed sand and soil together has actually worked super well. My beyeri pupated in that just fine. Unfortunately I’m not in a position to make more right at this moment so I bought some off of Insect Brothers
@Goliathus
When these finish pupating will they climb out of the soil on their own or should/could I dig them out?
I looked in and it seems like at least one emerged from it's pupal cell, the others I don't have a window in to see though :c
When these finish pupating will they climb out of the soil on their own or should/could I dig them out?
I looked in and it seems like at least one emerged from it's pupal cell, the others I don't have a window in to see though :c
Goliathus
Pachnoda
Yes, the adults will emerge on their own, once they are fully hardened and become active.
Fire Moth
L3
I might be running into similar issues with Lucanus Elaphus. I didn't fill the containers to the top. They do not come to the top anymore. They been under the clay for about 1.5 months. But hasn't make cells. Looks like they are getting close to pupate in the tunnel. They are yellow, moving slow and takes characteristics of a pupa's movement. What should i do at this point? Take them out and start over? Leave it in the tunnel or wait for it to be prepupa and made an artificial cell?
