DynamicDynastes
Egg
No I mean for exotic beetles like rhinos and stags.
What are the extent of laws and restrictions of importing beetle species ot and within the US and why?
- Thread starter InsectaJaeger888
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Beetle-Experience
Eudicella
Yes, that is correct. For species that require permits - anyone buying one from someone who has a permit (USDA permit) would also need a permit.
Permits for a majority of exotic species would also require site inspections before receiving the permit.
Permits for a majority of exotic species would also require site inspections before receiving the permit.
So what I am curious about now is since carnivorous beetles are technically exempt from the permit requirements would that mean that rhinoceros beetles in the genus Phileurus which are all carnivorous in nature could be purchased and shipped to another state without permit?
Kevinswither
Pupa
That would be one of the loopholes that the gov will probably have to go into depth. In from what I gathered, we aren't even supposed to be shipping praying mantids or even native species interstate. In simple and in a few words, those can be shipped to another state. Bugsincyberspace has done it with dyanstes tityus, and many others have done so.
Beetle-Experience
Eudicella
There are businesses that do ship insects between states, but this does not automatically mean it is legal; people always bring this up when speaking about permits. It is up to the person receiving the insects - NOT the seller/shipper to make sure they are within the law.
The person selling or shipping something does not need to make sure the buyer has proper permits, the seller would just need to make sure that they have their own permits for the insects they are selling.
The person selling or shipping something does not need to make sure the buyer has proper permits, the seller would just need to make sure that they have their own permits for the insects they are selling.
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Beetle-Experience
Eudicella
There are genera that may fall into this "loophole" category, but they would need to be researched or at least cleared by the USDA first.
I was researching exotic dung beetles last year, working on being able to bring in some of the huge Heliocopris. The USDA/APHIS cleared me, which was great, but the USDA Veterinary Services did not. They have a (long) list of countries that have hoof and mouth disease that we (currently) would not be able to import from.
I was researching exotic dung beetles last year, working on being able to bring in some of the huge Heliocopris. The USDA/APHIS cleared me, which was great, but the USDA Veterinary Services did not. They have a (long) list of countries that have hoof and mouth disease that we (currently) would not be able to import from.
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Hisserdude
Dynastes
Ooooh, I like the sound of that, easing permitting for importing roaches from other countries would be fantastic...
Beetle-Experience
Eudicella
I will post as soon as I hear something regarding the changes. I think I heard there were to be 6 or more exotic roach species taken off of the "watch list". This would mean they could move between states freely and could be sold in pet stores. I generally get lots of information in July, but these changes might come through sooner than that. I also heard that USDA - APHIS is working to make all of this information easy to find and easy to read, which would be exceedingly helpful to us.
Manticora: Actually, what we were saying is that manchicoras and anthias should not be on the "watch list" right now. They are carnivores which should put them under the FWS $100 import/export license instead of the USDA permitting system. It's not difficult to get an import/export license, but you would have to find a vendor that you would be brave enough to work with (sending money overseas and all) and would have to import them into a port where they could be inspected. Any of the big time tarantula dealers (importers) should already have the license and understand the procedures.
I've been working with beetles for over 17 years, and it looks like things might finally be easing up a tiny bit regarding permits and insects.. let's hope so.
Manticora: Actually, what we were saying is that manchicoras and anthias should not be on the "watch list" right now. They are carnivores which should put them under the FWS $100 import/export license instead of the USDA permitting system. It's not difficult to get an import/export license, but you would have to find a vendor that you would be brave enough to work with (sending money overseas and all) and would have to import them into a port where they could be inspected. Any of the big time tarantula dealers (importers) should already have the license and understand the procedures.
I've been working with beetles for over 17 years, and it looks like things might finally be easing up a tiny bit regarding permits and insects.. let's hope so.
Kevinswither
Pupa
Let's just hope that when they allow us to legally keep herbivorous insects is that they don't permit the hell too much or make us have very contained and self circulating environments meant for anthrax. That is quite overkill, we are not genetically engineering insects that are very prolific like flies or mosquitoes.
Side note: The quite morally grey loopholes of the bug hobby are (from what I gathered):
Side note: The quite morally grey loopholes of the bug hobby are (from what I gathered):
- Exotic mantids (carnivores), generally common
- Cosomderus/african fighter katydids (omnivores, and there like roaches in diet)
- Carnivorous katydids (carnivores)
- Philereus beetles/Goliath beetle larvae (reported to be carnivorous)
- Roaches (same as african fighter crickets) (omnivoroes, but are generally common)
- Manticoras/anthias beetles (tiger beetles)(carnivores)
- Dung beetles (Unknown)
- Assassin bugs
- Velvet worms
- Isopods? Springtails?
- Millipedes
- Anything else I should add?
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Kevinswither
Pupa
No dyanstes/lucanides as they eat plants, even though they only eat dead wood (seriously??), and that earthworms and roaches then again are decomposers. I would think the USDA be kind of trippy on those. I just realized that millipedes are a morally grey one. Honestly, the only insects that would be definitely banned and would be a no no would be giant african land snails, as we already know that they are quite destructive, any pests that are already proven to be a pest (coconut rhino beetles), and stick insects (and even then, c morrius and a lot of the more hardier parthogenic ones.
If you wanted to go to the spectrum of where it is only live plants (actual crops) or actual damage, it would be the longhorn beetles, cocconut rhino beetles, parthnogenic stick insects (hardy ones), giant african land snails (we already seen there destructiveness), non-native ants/wasps/bees (except for apis mellifera) and any other pest of actual agricultural plants. As it is kind of weird that we can simply ship almost freely any pest insect but not any tropical one.
So for the morally grey-actual color hue, there are your'e dyanstes/lucanides/cettonaides. And millipedes. But those tend to be targeted so don't.
UPDATE: Butterflies and moths are definite no no as the caterpillars are like the phasmids, and the butterflies can fly, which means they can go as they please. So definite no no and the only ones that could probably be invasive are the pest butterfly species we do have already. In term with that in mind the only places which then again can survive would be in the warmer states, like southern california, florida, and some of the south eastern states (even though there are winters that can kill off the ovas)
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Beetle-Experience
Eudicella
I had already mentioned that dung beetle (Scarabaeinae) are not regulated.
The only current regulations on them come from the USDA Veterinary Services - trying to protect against hoof-and-mouth by regulating exotics from specific countries.
Any of our native US dung beetles are completely free of permitting and can be bought, sold and shipped at any time.
The only current regulations on them come from the USDA Veterinary Services - trying to protect against hoof-and-mouth by regulating exotics from specific countries.
Any of our native US dung beetles are completely free of permitting and can be bought, sold and shipped at any time.
Beetle-Experience
Eudicella
Actually, if anyone wants to help our cause, they (USDA) are still taking comments here:
https://www.regulations.gov/docket?D=APHIS-2008-0076
There are currently many comments regarding snails (both food and pets) and soil but little to nothing on insects / beetles. I think we might be able to make a pretty strong case on Dynastes or possibly Lucanids... some genus that does not eat living plants at any stage.
Lets keep it classy though..
https://www.regulations.gov/docket?D=APHIS-2008-0076
There are currently many comments regarding snails (both food and pets) and soil but little to nothing on insects / beetles. I think we might be able to make a pretty strong case on Dynastes or possibly Lucanids... some genus that does not eat living plants at any stage.
Lets keep it classy though..
Hisserdude
Dynastes
Wait, there are roach species on the "watch list"? Lol, what for? I was pretty sure all roaches were legal to keep, even the exotic ones, as long as you weren't in FL.
Beetle-Experience
Eudicella
Nope. Until very recently exotic roaches needed a USDA permit. I don't think all of these changes have gone through 100% yet, but I know the ones to be removed from the watch list are common feeders, and for sure Hissers.
Pretty much, if it is an insect that eats any plant matter at any stage of it's life cycle, it would fall under USDA and would need a permit, for both exotic imports and interstate movement of natives or exotics.
http://beetlesource.com/index.php/laws
Pretty much, if it is an insect that eats any plant matter at any stage of it's life cycle, it would fall under USDA and would need a permit, for both exotic imports and interstate movement of natives or exotics.
http://beetlesource.com/index.php/laws
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Kevinswither
Pupa
Wait a sec aren't mantids and assassin bugs under that?? What about omnivorous katydids, crickets and grasshoppers? Kind of weird how the cosmoderus can eat both plants and animals.
Kevinswither
Pupa
I'm saying omnivorous orthopotera as there diet is similar to roaches. Just a shower thought.
Hisserdude
Dynastes
For some reason I find that hard to believe. What about all the businesses that make money off of selling feeder roaches, most of which are exotic, and all the pet roach vendors out there? There's even been news articles talking about the hobby of keeping roaches, with interviews with hobbyists. Unlike the exotic beetle hobby in the US, we roach keepers are MUCH more outspoken about our hobby and don't try to hide it, which I thought was because this hobby was legal.
Insect rod
L1
Not sure if I understand part of this, so are we saying beetles like Dynastus t. can or can not be sent from state to state even though they live and breed in both states they are being sent too?
Insect rod
Insect rod