pupation for goliathus goliatus larvae
- Thread starter Mykei
- Start date
Maybe, it's going to depend on what the larva is doing.
If it stays topside, and attempts to escape or goes around the interior of the container sides, it's looking
for pupation medium, whatever the size of the larva is- my goliatus pupated at 37g.
There is so much to know about raising this one successfully, since my experience, with my first grub,
I've concluded that , at least in my case, the care sheet made it look a lot simpler than it is, it's not simple
until you have experience, which getting is not simple, or cheap.
If it stays topside, and attempts to escape or goes around the interior of the container sides, it's looking
for pupation medium, whatever the size of the larva is- my goliatus pupated at 37g.
There is so much to know about raising this one successfully, since my experience, with my first grub,
I've concluded that , at least in my case, the care sheet made it look a lot simpler than it is, it's not simple
until you have experience, which getting is not simple, or cheap.
Well, they're supposed to be around 90 grams or more, but if it is staying topside, you need to provide pupation medium, mine stayed
on top for close to a week, while I tried deeper substrate, larger containers, all to no avail- until I put it into a container with clay substrate,
and it burrowed right down forming a pupal chamber.
on top for close to a week, while I tried deeper substrate, larger containers, all to no avail- until I put it into a container with clay substrate,
and it burrowed right down forming a pupal chamber.
Goliathus
Pachnoda
90 g. would only be attained by males, of course. Female Goliathus larvae would not normally reach such a weight.
Did you use clay only for the pupation substrate, or just place a layer of it at the bottom of the container, with the rest filled with organic substrate? I've seen both kinds of set-up used; not sure if one is necessarily preferable over the other, though.
This is an interesting subject. Firstly, my care sheet only mentioned Georgia red clay, which I bought 3 pounds of, and it's not a lot, I mixed it with sand
I bought at the craft store, so it'd be sterile, even though I drive by the ocean every day, at least days I leave the house.
Since then, another member has sent me many pictures of Goliathus breeding in Asia, Japan, and China, the pupation medium they seem to
be using is finer, much finer than the clay I used, I'm not sure if it's an issue of moisture content, personally, I think it's something completely
different than the Georgia clay, for at least 2 reasons, the color is completely different, and the material is obviously finer, more like some soil
you might find in a desert. My grub formed a chamber, but it looks nothing like the egg shape with the ring around the middle that the Asian
breeders are producing, those things look like they came out of a machine.
I'll try this species again, perhaps this coming winter, and have some ideas about doing a better job than my first attempt, I've read some
articles and seen results other people are getting. I jumped into it, and it sounded easy, but it's not, replicating the African habitat takes more
than coconut substrate, growing a grub, and putting it into a pupation medium when it decides to stop eating. The pictures I've seen that Firemoth
(member) has sent me, while all in Chinese or Japanese, are amazing, and they have this down to a production line. Research is the key, but information
isn't always available, but if I could go back 6 months, I'd have done more reading before making a purchase. But, there is only one way to get hands
on experience, and that in itself is valuable, even if it isn't a complete success.
I bought at the craft store, so it'd be sterile, even though I drive by the ocean every day, at least days I leave the house.
Since then, another member has sent me many pictures of Goliathus breeding in Asia, Japan, and China, the pupation medium they seem to
be using is finer, much finer than the clay I used, I'm not sure if it's an issue of moisture content, personally, I think it's something completely
different than the Georgia clay, for at least 2 reasons, the color is completely different, and the material is obviously finer, more like some soil
you might find in a desert. My grub formed a chamber, but it looks nothing like the egg shape with the ring around the middle that the Asian
breeders are producing, those things look like they came out of a machine.
I'll try this species again, perhaps this coming winter, and have some ideas about doing a better job than my first attempt, I've read some
articles and seen results other people are getting. I jumped into it, and it sounded easy, but it's not, replicating the African habitat takes more
than coconut substrate, growing a grub, and putting it into a pupation medium when it decides to stop eating. The pictures I've seen that Firemoth
(member) has sent me, while all in Chinese or Japanese, are amazing, and they have this down to a production line. Research is the key, but information
isn't always available, but if I could go back 6 months, I'd have done more reading before making a purchase. But, there is only one way to get hands
on experience, and that in itself is valuable, even if it isn't a complete success.
Goliathus
Pachnoda
This is an interesting subject. Firstly, my care sheet only mentioned Georgia red clay,...
Georgia red clay is a variety of ultisol, which is the same red / yellow soil type found across much of tropical / subtropical Africa.
...which I bought 3 pounds of, and it's not a lot, I mixed it with sand
I bought at the craft store, so it'd be sterile, even though I drive by the ocean every day, at least days I leave the house.
Ocean sand would probably be ok as an additive, except that you would need to soak it in fresh water first to remove the salt.
Since then, another member has sent me many pictures of Goliathus breeding in Asia, Japan, and China, the pupation medium they seem to
be using is finer, much finer than the clay I used, I'm not sure if it's an issue of moisture content, personally, I think it's something completely
different than the Georgia clay, for at least 2 reasons, the color is completely different, and the material is obviously finer, more like some soil
you might find in a desert.
Most likely, an inceptisol or andisol. Apparently, Goliathus larvae find these soil types acceptable as well for pupal cell formation. From what I have read, it's not so much the soil type that matters, but the fineness / density of the particles (i.e., its degree of "stickiness" when moisture is applied to it). As you probably know, the larvae of Goliathus (like those of other genera of the cetoniine subtribe Goliathina) actually ingest substrate material, mix it with an internally-produced binding agent to form a pudding-like consistency, and then secrete it via regurgitation to form their pupal cells (rather than by compressing the substrate around them, as Dynastinae, Rutelinae and Lucanidae do). The former construction technique is also used by Megalorhina (Mecynorhina) harrisi (Goliathini subtribe Coryphocerina).
My grub formed a chamber, but it looks nothing like the egg shape with the ring around the middle that the Asian
breeders are producing, those things look like they came out of a machine.
Did you rub away the outer layer of soil that's caked on to the cell? The true shape of the cell (including the characteristic central ring) won't be visible unless this loose outer layer is rubbed off.
I'll try this species again, perhaps this coming winter, and have some ideas about doing a better job than my first attempt, I've read some
articles and seen results other people are getting. I jumped into it, and it sounded easy, but it's not, replicating the African habitat takes more
than coconut substrate, growing a grub, and putting it into a pupation medium when it decides to stop eating. The pictures I've seen that Firemoth
(member) has sent me, while all in Chinese or Japanese, are amazing, and they have this down to a production line. Research is the key, but information
isn't always available, but if I could go back 6 months, I'd have done more reading before making a purchase. But, there is only one way to get hands
on experience, and that in itself is valuable, even if it isn't a complete success.
I think it's actually quite remarkable that so many species of insects (even exotic ones with rather specific environmental and dietary requirements) can be reproduced under artificial conditions at all. I recently saw a video by a hobbyist in the Netherlands that reared some Morpho peleides (=helenor) on clover! -
Georgia red clay is a variety of ultisol, which is the same red / yellow soil type found across much of tropical / subtropical Africa.
...which I bought 3 pounds of, and it's not a lot, I mixed it with sand
I bought at the craft store, so it'd be sterile, even though I drive by the ocean every day, at least days I leave the house.
Ocean sand would probably be ok as an additive, except that you would need to soak it in fresh water first to remove the salt.
Since then, another member has sent me many pictures of Goliathus breeding in Asia, Japan, and China, the pupation medium they seem to
be using is finer, much finer than the clay I used, I'm not sure if it's an issue of moisture content, personally, I think it's something completely
different than the Georgia clay, for at least 2 reasons, the color is completely different, and the material is obviously finer, more like some soil
you might find in a desert.
Most likely, an inceptisol or andisol. Apparently, Goliathus larvae find these soil types acceptable as well for pupal cell formation. From what I have read, it's not so much the soil type that matters, but the fineness / density of the particles (i.e., its degree of "stickiness" when moisture is applied to it). As you probably know, the larvae of Goliathus (like those of other genera of the cetoniine subtribe Goliathina) actually ingest substrate material, mix it with an internally-produced binding agent to form a pudding-like consistency, and then secrete it via regurgitation to form their pupal cells (rather than by compressing the substrate around them, as Dynastinae, Rutelinae and Lucanidae do). The former construction technique is also used by Megalorhina (Mecynorhina) harrisi (Goliathini subtribe Coryphocerina).
My grub formed a chamber, but it looks nothing like the egg shape with the ring around the middle that the Asian
breeders are producing, those things look like they came out of a machine.
Did you rub away the outer layer of soil that's caked on to the cell? The true shape of the cell (including the characteristic central ring) won't be visible unless this loose outer layer is rubbed off.
I'll try this species again, perhaps this coming winter, and have some ideas about doing a better job than my first attempt, I've read some
articles and seen results other people are getting. I jumped into it, and it sounded easy, but it's not, replicating the African habitat takes more
than coconut substrate, growing a grub, and putting it into a pupation medium when it decides to stop eating. The pictures I've seen that Firemoth
(member) has sent me, while all in Chinese or Japanese, are amazing, and they have this down to a production line. Research is the key, but information
isn't always available, but if I could go back 6 months, I'd have done more reading before making a purchase. But, there is only one way to get hands
on experience, and that in itself is valuable, even if it isn't a complete success.
I think it's actually quite remarkable that so many species of insects (even exotic ones with rather specific environmental and dietary requirements) can be reproduced under artificial conditions at all. I recently saw a video by a hobbyist in the Netherlands that reared some Morpho peleides (=helenor) on clover! -
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It is amazing Morpho larva eat such an easy plant, I was surprised about that when I first learned of it a few years ago, not all exotic butterflies are so accommodating.
I'll try rubbing off the outer layer of the goliatus cell, I wasn't completely sure about the moisture content of my red clay, and I realize the points you made,
it's going to work better next time.
I'll try rubbing off the outer layer of the goliatus cell, I wasn't completely sure about the moisture content of my red clay, and I realize the points you made,
it's going to work better next time.
Goliathus
Pachnoda
When placing the cell back in (or on the surface of) the soil, be sure to set the head end (the broad end) tilted upward at an approximately 20 degree incline, as this is the natural position in which the cells of this genus are constructed, and may possibly be of significance during pupation.