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Dragozap

Stupid Airplane Question

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I feel like I should use my common sense but my fantasies shall be quenched!

Could I take beetles which are legal in the US(natives, Goliathus) from Taiwan via airplane? I'm visiting my relatives there where beetle shops are literally everywhere. We probably know it's a fat NO but I just wanted to make sure from your general consensus.

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Technically, it is even illegal to transport native Dynastinae and Lucanidae across state lines. To bring any wildlife into the country, you would need a FWS permit. There may be an exception for personal pets that are not for commercial purposes, but then you have the USDA regulations. Theoretically, you might be able to bring in one of the three deregulated Goliathus species if you declared it as a personal pet, but everything else is illegal. 

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@JKim Please educate me.

I'm still confused, and I feel like this should be common sense but I just want exact conclusive evidence to extinguish my hopes.

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1 hour ago, Dragozap said:

@JKim Please educate me.

I'm still confused, and I feel like this should be common sense but I just want exact conclusive evidence to extinguish my hopes.

As I said, the only species you might be able to legally import would be the three deregulated Goliathus species. All other species are regulated by the USDA. I have spent hours on the phone with a senior entomologist at the USDA, and he has explained the regulations quite thoroughly. 

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I would assume the only way to get any beetles home would be to have a beetle breeding shop import them for you

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A few years back there was a woman on here who brought her Dorcus sp. (I think it was a Dorcus?) through customs under the premise that it was a pet and not for breeding. I think she had a kickstarter for plushies based on him, probably because it was a ridiculous process and she wanted to memorialize him lol.

I think she has an account? 

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I'm tagging everyone so all can read it. @Dragozap @ruislerez @Bug boy3092 @Ratmosphere

The answer to your question is NO. Even if you can legally own, rear, trade/sell/purchase, and transport between states within the U.S., It is NOT LEGAL to bringing in from oversea (including Canada and Mexico, which is connected by land). The REAL problem of bringing in the organism from outside the country is not actually the organism you are bringing in. The real, and the utmost problem is actually the pest (could be another insect, bacteria, fungus, etc.) which could potentially cause a harm to native plants and animals. This can be a huge problem, if there is any that actually does cause the issues. The next question is the organism you bringing in. That also can cause a potential harm to native plants and animals.

It does not matter. Even if you are bringing in Lucanus elaphus, L. capreolus, L. placidus, L. mazama, Dynastes grantii, D. tityus, Megasoma punctulatum, etc., it is illegal, BECAUSE you are bringing them in from outside of the country.

@The Mantis Menagerie has pointed out a VERY GOOD thing here:

On 6/17/2019 at 12:48 AM, The Mantis Menagerie said:

Technically, it is even illegal to transport native Dynastinae and Lucanidae across state lines.

As far as I know, this is half right, and half wrong. Dynastes grantii used to be uncommon, and was designated as protected species once in a while ago, and was unable to legally transport out of the state Arizona. (This is still the case for specimens collected from Utah. D. grantii is still protected in Utah.) The reason of transporting organisms across the states is more likely because U.S. has many different ecosystems from dessert to rain-forest. It would NOT SAFE to bringing in any alien (outsider) to a new habitat. The state California can freely import dynastine scarab beetles and lucanid beetles from other U.S. states as long as it is not legally protected by law. There are some other U.S. states like that, and it all depends on state and status of species itself.

Back to the original discussion:

You all may wonder what the fxxk does USDA and FWS has anything to do with bringing in organisms from outside the country. They handle this matter because they are the ones taking good care of natural fauna of the US, and especially "the plants."

Do not ever try to smuggle. The U.S. Customs and the FWS agents in the US airports are fucked up. They are retarded assholes who has no knowledge of insects, willing to confiscate whatever they like even if you legally transporting loaned museum collections.

Here is what happened to me the other day. I brought 14 dead, dried, some packaged and some pinned specimens from a short trip to South Korea in March 2017. They were all legally collected, not protected, very common, and their status were all NE for Not Evaluated per IUCN (NE is there for those so common, that you don't even have to research whether they are decreasing or whatever). As soon as USFWS agent looked at a male, Trypoxylus dichotomus, they confiscated, and told me this is one of those CITES. I immediately responded to them that this is not CITES, and is not protected, and also I told them I received it from national museum for a research (Yes, they really were from many different research institutes in Korea.) Guess what? They are NOT willing to hear me out, and just took it away. Oh well, It's not like T. dichotomus is something that I need to risk my life. So whatever, I just gave it away, and received a package of pinned and papered collections from a colleague in South Korea. Ever since, I never personally carried anything with me. Because, I'm dead tired talking to idiots.

Try not to risk your rest of life. If you really want to rear something illegal, try get them within the U.S., to avoid stupid troubles, although I would not recommend anyone to do anything illegal. It is just NOT WORTH IT for your hobby life.

Hobby is for fun, guys... Have fun!

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7 minutes ago, JKim said:

As far as I know, this is half right, and half wrong. Dynastes grantii used to be uncommon, and was designated as protected species once in a while ago, and was unable to legally transport out of the state Arizona. (This is still the case for specimens collected from Utah. D. grantii is still protected in Utah.) The reason of transporting organisms across the states is more likely because U.S. has many different ecosystems from dessert to rain-forest. It would NOT SAFE to bringing in any alien (outsider) to a new habitat. The state California can freely import dynastine scarab beetles and lucanid beetles from other U.S. states as long as it is not legally protected by law. There are some other U.S. states like that, and it all depends on state and status of species itself.

The illegality stems from USDA regulation, not state or federal endangered species regulations. As with so many other insects, Dynastinae and Lucanidae are classified as plant pests, and they require PPQ 526 permits for interstate movement. The California law is a myth (it exists, but it doesn't change anything), and it is illegal to bring Dynastinae and Lucanidae into the state without a USDA permit. The federal regulations made under the Plant Protection Act supersede any state laws or regulations. 

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