Can beetles under Dynastes genus mate each other?

[junseong.jang]

Can beetles under Dynastes genus mate each other?

 

Also, according to Wikipedia, there are eight species in the genus:

• Dynastes granti (Horn, 1870) – Western Hercules beetle or Grants' Hercules beetle (USA: Arizona)
• Dynastes hercules (Linnaeus, 1758) – Hercules beetle (Central and South America)
• Dynastes hyllus (Chevrolat, 1843) – (Mexico, Belize, El Salvador, Honduras, Guatemala, Nicaragua. Male: 35–70 mm; female : 30–45 mm)
• Dynastes maya (Hardy, 2003) Maya white beetle^[1] – (Mexico, Guatemala. Male: 50–90 mm; female: 40–50 mm)
• Dynastes miyashitai (Yamaya, 2004) – (Mexico. Male: 50–90 mm; female : 40–50 mm)
• Dynastes neptunus (Quensel in Schönherr, 1805) – Neptune beetle (South America: Colombia)
• Dynastes satanas (Moser, 1909) – Satanas beetle (Bolivia. Male : 50–115 mm; female : 30–55 mm)
• Dynastes tityus (Linnaeus, 1763) – Unicorn beetle or Eastern Hercules beetle (United States)

 

 

 

Or can only beetles of the same species mate each other?

[markjfisher]

Generally the species segregation means that it can only produce fertile offspring within its own species. Otherwise, we call them breeds, like dogs. House dogs are all one species. I have heard that Dynastes Granti and Tityus can interbreed though. Correct me if I'm wrong.

[Shade of Eclipse]

A species designation is usually given when you have populations that cannot interbreed due to various factors, not just the inability to produce fertile offspring. If the offspring are fertile but not "fit" enough to continue on its own, the two parents are considered to be different species as well. There are also some organisms given species designations that can interbreed successfully, but show morphological differences and are separated by geographical barriers that prevent them from normally encountering one another. The same thing occurs when they can interbreed, but do not do so because of differences in behavior such as when reproduction occurs or how they procure mates. Of course, there's always the argument for putting very similar species into subspecies categories as well as putting subspecies into different species.

 

Many of the beetles in the genus Dynastes can interbreed and produce fertile offspring--I'm not sure if their hybrid offspring are more or less successful than their parent species since human intervention has a way of proliferating even the most detrimental genes.

[junseong.jang]

A species designation is usually given when you have populations that cannot interbreed due to various factors, not just the inability to produce fertile offspring. If the offspring are fertile but not "fit" enough to continue on its own, the two parents are considered to be different species as well. There are also some organisms given species designations that can interbreed successfully, but show morphological differences and are separated by geographical barriers that prevent them from normally encountering one another. The same thing occurs when they can interbreed, but do not do so because of differences in behavior such as when reproduction occurs or how they procure mates. Of course, there's always the argument for putting very similar species into subspecies categories as well as putting subspecies into different species.

 

Many of the beetles in the genus Dynastes can interbreed and produce fertile offspring--I'm not sure if their hybrid offspring are more or less successful than their parent species since human intervention has a way of proliferating even the most detrimental genes.

 

Do you think that dynastes neptunus and hercules hercules interbreed?

[JKim]

@junseong.jang 아직 미국에 계신가요?

생물학적으로 종(species)의 정의는 계속해서 브리딩이 가능한, 즉 생식기능이 이어져가는 것을 종으로 봅니다. 미국 남서부에 있는 그란티와 동남부에 있는 티티우스가 교잡이 가능하다는 얘기가 있긴 한데 하이브리드 1세대만 나오지, 그 이후 세대까지 나온다는 기록은 아직까진 못봤습니다. 유일하게 제대로 기록된 곳의 자료가 U of Kentucky 대학의 곤충학 연구실인데, 교잡으로 나온 1세대 개체들은 모두 수컷으로 나왔다고 합니다. 그 이후 기록은 없다고 함...

자매종(sister species)의 경우 그만큼 가깝기 때문에 한 세대(generation) 정도의 번식만 겨우 가능합니다. 하지만 생식 기능이 떨어져 추가 세대는 나오지 못하는게 일반적입니다. 과거에 헤라클레스x힐루스, 헤라클레스x그란티 등의 교잡 개체가 일본 옥션에 몇차례 뜬 적 있었지만 굉장히 희귀한 케이스고, 그 다음 세대가 있단 얘기는 못들어봤습니다.

ultimately, ... 짝짓기(copulation)가 가능하냐는 질문을 하셨는데... 짝짓기가 정상적으로 이루어지려면 수컷의 생식기가 암컷의 생식기에 열쇠와 자물쇠처럼 정확하게 일치하여야하는데 종이 다르다면 형태가 달라 올바르게 연결이 되지는 못합니다. 억지로 연결이 되더라도 말씀드렸다싶히 정상적이지 못하고 생식기능이 떨어지기 때문에 다음 세대가 나오더라도 다수 사망에 이르고, 생식기능 없이 우화하는 경우가 많습니다. 

[Ratmosphere]

Bro, I cant read that... lol.

[JKim]

13 hours ago, Ratmosphere said:

Bro, I cant read that... lol.

I noticed his nickname is Korean name, so I just wrote in Korean language...

[Rique]

On 6/16/2016 at 12:10 PM, Shade of Eclipse said:

A species designation is usually given when you have populations that cannot interbreed due to various factors, not just the inability to produce fertile offspring. If the offspring are fertile but not "fit" enough to continue on its own, the two parents are considered to be different species as well. There are also some organisms given species designations that can interbreed successfully, but show morphological differences and are separated by geographical barriers that prevent them from normally encountering one another. The same thing occurs when they can interbreed, but do not do so because of differences in behavior such as when reproduction occurs or how they procure mates. Of course, there's always the argument for putting very similar species into subspecies categories as well as putting subspecies into different species.

 

Many of the beetles in the genus Dynastes can interbreed and produce fertile offspring--I'm not sure if their hybrid offspring are more or less successful than their parent species since human intervention has a way of proliferating even the most detrimental genes.

Thank you for sharing this insight. I have some knowledge regarding this topic, but you connect each point very well. 

[Goliathus]

See the following website - 

https://www.uky.edu/Ag/CritterFiles/casefile/insects/beetles/hercules/hybrids.htm

[JKim]

1 hour ago, Goliathus said:

See the following website - 

https://www.uky.edu/Ag/CritterFiles/casefile/insects/beetles/hercules/hybrids.htm

For everyone who already has read this article, and wonders about what happened afterward:

Unfortunately, according to UKY ento dept. personnel, there has been no update to this article (and the study) because the one who conducted this study is no longer affiliated to UKY, and the department has no contact info whatsoever of the person (which sounds weird). They have no clue whether the hybrid F1 was fertile and had an ability to breed any further generations.

I contacted UKY personnel to know the further updates while I was working on a manuscript, to be published, of the occurrence of Dynastes tityus (L.) in Louisiana.

[Goliathus]

15 hours ago, JKim said:

For everyone who already has read this article, and wonders about what happened afterward:

Unfortunately, according to UKY ento dept. personnel, there has been no update to this article (and the study) because the one who conducted this study is no longer affiliated to UKY, and the department has no contact info whatsoever of the person (which sounds weird). They have no clue whether the hybrid F1 was fertile and had an ability to breed any further generations.

I contacted UKY personnel to know the further updates while I was working on a manuscript, to be published, of the occurrence of Dynastes tityus (L.) in Louisiana.

My last correspondence with Bill Wallin was 7 years ago (June 2012).  Surely though, he was not the only one to have ever produced tityus X granti hybrids?  In any case, please always be careful to keep hybrids separated from pure species cultures.

[Anacimas]

On 9/12/2019 at 5:13 PM, JKim said:

@junseong.jang 아직 미국에 계신가요?... ...

 

Translation please! Inquiring minds -- and my pet beetles -- want to know! 😉

[JKim]

47 minutes ago, Anacimas said:

 Translation please! Inquiring minds -- and my pet beetles -- want to know! 😉

To provide an explanation what I replied to this original quthor:

One of the definition for biological species is an ability to continuously breed, which means, it has to be fertile throughout the generations. There are some words that Dynastes grantii and D. tityus can hybridize, but there is only one generation comes out of it, no officially known F2 specimens exist. Only hybridization data available is from U of Kentucky, but they got males only for the F1 Hybrids, and there is no further records about it.

Sister species are close to each other, so they may be able to mate and breed for only one generation because that hybrid generation is lacking fertility. There were some ads for dried specimens of [ D. hercules X D. hyllus ] and [ D. hercules X D. grantii ] couple times a while ago in Japanese auctions, but that is very rare case, and never heard of any further generations occurred.

Ultimately, back to the original question:

On 6/16/2016 at 9:11 AM, junseong.jang said:

Can beetles under Dynastes genus mate each other?

Is it possible to mate? yes, the copulation can occur, but genitalia may not perfectly fit in. To have a perfect and proper copulation to occur, a male genitalia must be properly inserted into a female genitalia. Genitalia of male and female of same species work like a key to a lock. (which is why morphological characteristic of genitalia can be a great key to identify species) Even if the copulation occurs, their genes are differ, and may not properly fertilize. And also, as I mentioned above, the hybrid generations are not fertile to produce next generations. (they sometime don't even have a genitalia to copulate).

[Anacimas]

Very lucid explanation; thanks much!

[airbugs]

it depends.

the most extreme case in Dynastes beetles was between D. hercules and D. neptunus.

see the link below:

http://insectforum.no-ip.org/gods/cgi-bin/topic.cgi?forum=2&topic=20521

the same progeny successfully produced F2 and F3.  That is, the hybrid offspring are viable and also fertile. However, the viability did decrease, where many larvae died soon after hatching. If you are friend with the breeder in Facebook, you can find the image of the F1, F2, and F3 adults from the link:

 

I am breeding D. maya x D. grantii in my lab. the idea is to create F1 and F2 offspring and use them for associate mapping to figure out the genes associated with different body coloration. So far the egg production is nice, but will need more time to find out if they hatch and the percentage of larvae that can reach adulthood.

 

[airbugs]

http://insectforum.no-ip.org/gods/cgi-bin/topic.cgi?forum=1&topic=19983&start=24&show=0

some other artificial hybrid examples in the above link.

People have tried crossing Dynastes hercules with D. hyllus and also Dynastes grantii with D. hercules. The offspring were viable and had successfully reached adulthood.

In general, hybridization between Dynastes beetle species can be done under artificial condition.