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What are the extent of laws and restrictions of importing beetle species ot and within the US and why?


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There are some changes in the works (or there were at least, not sure if other politics have changed anything recently) with regards to easing permitting on several species (mostly roaches, unfortunately) and also simplifying everything else.

 

Ooooh, I like the sound of that, easing permitting for importing roaches from other countries would be fantastic...

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I will post as soon as I hear something regarding the changes. I think I heard there were to be 6 or more exotic roach species taken off of the "watch list". This would mean they could move between states freely and could be sold in pet stores. I generally get lots of information in July, but these changes might come through sooner than that. I also heard that USDA - APHIS is working to make all of this information easy to find and easy to read, which would be exceedingly helpful to us.

 

 

Manticora: Actually, what we were saying is that manchicoras and anthias should not be on the "watch list" right now. They are carnivores which should put them under the FWS $100 import/export license instead of the USDA permitting system. It's not difficult to get an import/export license, but you would have to find a vendor that you would be brave enough to work with (sending money overseas and all) and would have to import them into a port where they could be inspected. Any of the big time tarantula dealers (importers) should already have the license and understand the procedures.

 

I've been working with beetles for over 17 years, and it looks like things might finally be easing up a tiny bit regarding permits and insects.. let's hope so.

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Let's just hope that when they allow us to legally keep herbivorous insects is that they don't permit the hell too much or make us have very contained and self circulating environments meant for anthrax. That is quite overkill, we are not genetically engineering insects that are very prolific like flies or mosquitoes.

 

Side note: The quite morally grey loopholes of the bug hobby are (from what I gathered):

  • Exotic mantids (carnivores), generally common
  • Cosomderus/african fighter katydids (omnivores, and there like roaches in diet)
  • Carnivorous katydids (carnivores)
  • Philereus beetles/Goliath beetle larvae (reported to be carnivorous)
  • Roaches (same as african fighter crickets) (omnivoroes, but are generally common)
  • Manticoras/anthias beetles (tiger beetles)(carnivores)
  • Dung beetles (Unknown)
  • Assassin bugs
  • Velvet worms
  • Isopods? Springtails?
  • Millipedes
  • Anything else I should add?
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Let's just hope that when they allow us to legally keep herbivorous insects is that they don't permit the hell too much or make us have very contained and self circulating environments meant for anthrax. That is quite overkill, we are not genetically engineering insects that are very prolific like flies or mosquitoes.

 

Side note: The quite morally grey loopholes of the bug hobby are (from what I gathered):

  • Exotic mantids (carnivores), generally common
  • Cosomderus/african fighter katydids (omnivores, and there like roaches in diet)
  • Carnivorous katydids (carnivores)
  • Philereus beetles/Goliath beetle larvae (reported to be carnivorous)
  • Roaches (same as african fighter crickets) (omnivoroes, but are generally common)
  • Manticoras/anthias beetles (tiger beetles)(carnivores)
  • Dung beetles (Unknown)
  • Assassin bugs
  • Velvet worms
  • Isopods? Springtails?
  • Anything else I should add?

 

Dynastes please

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Dynastes please

No dyanstes/lucanides as they eat plants, even though they only eat dead wood (seriously??), and that earthworms and roaches then again are decomposers. I would think the USDA be kind of trippy on those. I just realized that millipedes are a morally grey one. Honestly, the only insects that would be definitely banned and would be a no no would be giant african land snails, as we already know that they are quite destructive, any pests that are already proven to be a pest (coconut rhino beetles), and stick insects (and even then, c morrius and a lot of the more hardier parthogenic ones.

 

If you wanted to go to the spectrum of where it is only live plants (actual crops) or actual damage, it would be the longhorn beetles, cocconut rhino beetles, parthnogenic stick insects (hardy ones), giant african land snails (we already seen there destructiveness), non-native ants/wasps/bees (except for apis mellifera) and any other pest of actual agricultural plants. As it is kind of weird that we can simply ship almost freely any pest insect but not any tropical one.

 

So for the morally grey-actual color hue, there are your'e dyanstes/lucanides/cettonaides. And millipedes. But those tend to be targeted so don't.

 

UPDATE: Butterflies and moths are definite no no as the caterpillars are like the phasmids, and the butterflies can fly, which means they can go as they please. So definite no no and the only ones that could probably be invasive are the pest butterfly species we do have already. In term with that in mind the only places which then again can survive would be in the warmer states, like southern california, florida, and some of the south eastern states (even though there are winters that can kill off the ovas)

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I had already mentioned that dung beetle (Scarabaeinae) are not regulated.

 

The only current regulations on them come from the USDA Veterinary Services - trying to protect against hoof-and-mouth by regulating exotics from specific countries.

 

Any of our native US dung beetles are completely free of permitting and can be bought, sold and shipped at any time.

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Actually, if anyone wants to help our cause, they (USDA) are still taking comments here:

https://www.regulations.gov/docket?D=APHIS-2008-0076

 

There are currently many comments regarding snails (both food and pets) and soil but little to nothing on insects / beetles. I think we might be able to make a pretty strong case on Dynastes or possibly Lucanids... some genus that does not eat living plants at any stage.

 

Lets keep it classy though..

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I will post as soon as I hear something regarding the changes. I think I heard there were to be 6 or more exotic roach species taken off of the "watch list". This would mean they could move between states freely and could be sold in pet stores. I generally get lots of information in July, but these changes might come through sooner than that. I also heard that USDA - APHIS is working to make all of this information easy to find and easy to read, which would be exceedingly helpful to us.

 

Wait, there are roach species on the "watch list"? Lol, what for? I was pretty sure all roaches were legal to keep, even the exotic ones, as long as you weren't in FL.

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Nope. Until very recently exotic roaches needed a USDA permit. I don't think all of these changes have gone through 100% yet, but I know the ones to be removed from the watch list are common feeders, and for sure Hissers.

 

Pretty much, if it is an insect that eats any plant matter at any stage of it's life cycle, it would fall under USDA and would need a permit, for both exotic imports and interstate movement of natives or exotics.

 

 

http://beetlesource.com/index.php/laws

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Nope. Until very recently exotic roaches needed a USDA permit. I don't think all of these changes have gone through 100% yet, but I know the ones to be removed from the watch list are common feeders, and for sure Hissers.

 

Pretty much, if it is an insect that eats any plant matter at any stage of it's life cycle, it would fall under USDA and would need a permit, for both exotic imports and interstate movement of natives or exotics.

 

 

http://beetlesource.com/index.php/laws

 

Wait a sec aren't mantids and assassin bugs under that?? What about omnivorous katydids, crickets and grasshoppers? Kind of weird how the cosmoderus can eat both plants and animals.

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Nope. Until very recently exotic roaches needed a USDA permit. I don't think all of these changes have gone through 100% yet, but I know the ones to be removed from the watch list are common feeders, and for sure Hissers.

 

Pretty much, if it is an insect that eats any plant matter at any stage of it's life cycle, it would fall under USDA and would need a permit, for both exotic imports and interstate movement of natives or exotics.

 

 

http://beetlesource.com/index.php/laws

 

For some reason I find that hard to believe. What about all the businesses that make money off of selling feeder roaches, most of which are exotic, and all the pet roach vendors out there? There's even been news articles talking about the hobby of keeping roaches, with interviews with hobbyists. Unlike the exotic beetle hobby in the US, we roach keepers are MUCH more outspoken about our hobby and don't try to hide it, which I thought was because this hobby was legal.

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Not sure if I understand part of this, so are we saying beetles like Dynastus t. can or can not be sent from state to state even though they live and breed in both states they are being sent too?

Insect rod

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That is kind of weird. The weird thing is that I see Indonesian and Malaysian breeders keep all sorts of exotic insects and none of them ever got out and that the country is tropical. Just another shower thought. Ditto with Japan's thing as they used to ban beetles until pressure from hobbyists made them permitted. And Japan has quite a nice climate for this stuff.

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The feeder roaches are the main reason behind the USDA changes in exotic roaches. I haven't heard that these changes have gone through yet, but they are delisting many of them... so many people have them now that have been researching changes to permitting.

 

Other than that, yes, it is illegal (without a permit) to own or receive between states any insect that eats any part of any plant (dead or alive plant) and any point in it's life cycle.

 

Even if the insect is native to both states, you are supposed to have a permit to receive them.

 

This is for both natives or exotics. If the insect ONLY eats other insects they are, for the most part, ok to own or ship. Also dung beetles are fine.

 

This has been the same permitting rules and procedures that have been in place since I started working with beetles back in 1999. This is also why I've been trying to get people to comment on the USDA permitting site. Until last year, not much had changed in any way regarding permits for pet insects, and when things had changed - it was for the worse: like when the African Millipedes were taken away (before that, they could be found at almost any pet store). So it's a pretty big deal that they are even considering easing permits -and- that they asked for public comment.

 

To kind-of back this information up, I have contacts at the USDA/APHIS as well as a majority of the zoos and institutions in the US that exhibit insects. For the past two years I have attended the IECC conference in AZ and sat-in on the "USDA round table" discussion regarding permits. Also, for the past two years, I have been attempting to work with the USDA to ease permits on a specific genus of large, exotic beetle. I am also a permit holder for AGB millipedes for a live exhibit that I curate at the local science museum, so I have been through all the paperwork before.

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The feeder roaches are the main reason behind the USDA changes in exotic roaches. I haven't heard that these changes have gone through yet, but they are delisting many of them.

 

Other than that, yes, it is illegal (without a permit) to own or receive between states any insect that eats any part of any plant (dead or alive plant) and any point in it's life cycle.

 

Even if the insect is native to both states, you are supposed to have a permit to receive them.

 

This is for both natives or exotics. If the insect ONLY eats other insects they are, for the most part, ok to own or ship. Also dung beetles are fine.

 

This has been the same permitting rules and procedures that have been in place since I started working with beetles back in 1999. This is also why I've been trying to get people to comment on the USDA permitting site. Until last year, not much had changed in any way regarding permits for pet insects, and when things had changed - it was for the worse: like when the African Millipedes were taken away (before that, they could be found at almost any pet store). So it's a pretty big deal that they are even considering easing permits -and- that they asked for public comment.

 

To kind-of back this information up, I have contacts at the USDA/APHIS as well as a majority of the zoos and institutions in the US that exhibit insects. For the past two years I have attended the IECC conference in AZ and sat-in on the "USDA round table" discussion regarding permits. Also, for the past two years, I have been attempting to work with the USDA to ease permits on a specific genus of large, exotic beetle.

I applaud you for that and I'm with you on that. For that, I am willing to help you on that, as it will help with a lot of matters as well as allow the USDA to catch the pests that really do affect us.

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Thank you Kevin!

 

I also wanted to talk about the easily misunderstood practice of selling live insects with an example:

 

During the summer months there are spots here in south Louisiana where it is easy to collect Eastern Lubber Grasshoppers. I collect and sell them to Shane at 'Bugs of America' (great guy!). He often turns around and sells them to others.

 

Since they are native to my state, I do not need a permit to collect, breed or sell them. Shane however, does need and has a permit to own them (since they eat plants and he is out of state).

 

It is not necessary for Shane or I to make sure that the person buying Lubbers from us has the proper permits - it it up to the buyer to make sure they themselves are legal.

 

So, just because you see something for sale online does not mean it is automatically legal for you to own, nor does it mean that the seller is necessarily breaking any laws by offering them for sale.

 

...I'm not sure if this helps clear anything up, but I hope it does.

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Please don't think that I am trying to stop anyone from buying or owning anything, or that I necessarily agree with the current state of permitting in the US, but I do know what the requirements are and it is often very difficult to find correct information out on your own - so I am trying to help.

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The feeder roaches are the main reason behind the USDA changes in exotic roaches. I haven't heard that these changes have gone through yet, but they are delisting many of them... so many people have them now that have been researching changes to permitting.

 

Other than that, yes, it is illegal (without a permit) to own or receive between states any insect that eats any part of any plant (dead or alive plant) and any point in it's life cycle.

Oh man, I really hope the USDA doesn't come knocking down my door, 'cause I love my hobby, roaches are my absolute favorite insects, I would hate to have to give them up. :(

 

Thanks for the information man, I really appreciate it!

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Well not to let the permitted seller off the hook, the permitted seller should learn or know what is legal to ship from state to state since he is the permitted seller. If anyone goes to jail he should first.

You may have an 18 year old trying to do a school project and learn the cycle of wood eating beetles. Should he go to jail, I don`t think so.

Do they really have time to work with real problems like fire ants with incredible devastation in the south, and millions and millions of old tires piled up across the country half filled with water raising mosquitoes?

Insect rod

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Oh crap, what about my native rhinoceros beetles, native/exotic carnivorous/omnivorous orthopotera, mantids, millipedes and the whatnot!? Oh the tragedy. By the way, shouldn't the USDA be tackling down real problems and checking for the real pests like fire ants, emerald ash borers, invasives that are already there?

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The USDA is already trying to develop methods to contain the species you've mentioned, Kevin. You have to keep in mind that these NIS are labeled invasive because they have caused both ecological and economical damages. It is never an easy task to try to eradicate or maintain their population due to numerous factors that are required to take in to consideration (environmental, ecological, economical, etc). Not to mention that these species have already established a population here in the US due to biological, environmental, or ecological advantages (reproductive method, generalist vs. specialist, absence of predator, presence of available resources, etc).

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Well not to let the permitted seller off the hook, the permitted seller should learn or know what is legal to ship from state to state since he is the permitted seller. If anyone goes to jail he should first.

You may have an 18 year old trying to do a school project and learn the cycle of wood eating beetles. Should he go to jail, I don`t think so.

Do they really have time to work with real problems like fire ants with incredible devastation in the south, and millions and millions of old tires piled up across the country half filled with water raising mosquitoes?

Insect rod

Insect Rod,

 

You may be thinking of this from the wrong angle - It is ALWAYS up to the person who is keeping/breeding/rearing the insect to make sure they themselves are within the law. We are not required to be the police here, so - as long as the person who is selling something has the permits to keep the insect - they are within the law.

 

When you buy something - it is up to YOU to make sure YOU are within the Fed + State laws.

 

Actually, they do have time, this is APHIS/PPQ we are talking about, and this is their only job. They are trying to keep problems like the exotic phasmid in CA or the "Japanese Beetle" from happening. Their main priority (because of the money) is keeping agriculture safe from pests, so hobbyists are a bit lower on their scale of importance.

 

Also, you would have to try very hard to go to jail over invertebrate permits. The worst that happens is fines and confiscation

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