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Beetle breeding over long term with close relations.


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#1 Eleodes hispilabris

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Posted 08 September 2017 - 06:13 PM

If brother and sister beetles breed, will their larvae have a higher chance of deformities, or are they different from us?  Over long terms, will they produce less larvae, (or more unhealthy ones)?  Is this usually not a problem?


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#2 Ratmosphere

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Posted 08 September 2017 - 06:58 PM

Never tried it. Only bred fresh beetles, no inbreds. 



#3 Eleodes hispilabris

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Posted 08 September 2017 - 07:17 PM

Ok, Thanks :D


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#4 Hisserdude

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Posted 08 September 2017 - 10:13 PM

Inbreeding generally isn't a problem with insects, and the genetic diversity eventually gets higher with each generation, at least if you are rearing more and more to adulthood.

Darklings: Alobates pensylvanica, Coelocnemis californicus, Coelus ciliatus, Eleodes clavicornis, Eleodes hispilabris, Eleodes nigrinus, Embaphion cf. contusum, Embaphion muricatum, Eusattus muricatus, Meracantha contracta, Platydema ellipticum, Tenebrio molitor, Tenebrio obscurus, Tenebrionid sp, Zophobas morio. Ground beetles: Pasimachus sp. "Arizona". Click beetles: 1 Alaus melanops larva, Ampedus sp, Elateridae sp larva, Elaterid sp larvae, Melanotus cf. similis, Melanotus sp, Pyrophorus noctilucus. Also: A bunch of cockroach species, spiders, isopods, and a cat. For a full list of my invertebrates, See my blog! http://invertebratedude.blogspot.com/


#5 Redmont

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Posted 13 September 2017 - 07:58 AM

I agree with hisserDude there generally isn't a problem just select the largest males and females to breed. Butterflies can only be inbread for a few generations before they get sickly and to small.

#6 Ratmosphere

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Posted 13 September 2017 - 08:26 AM

Also, I had a friend breed a monster Dynastes hercules hercules with its sister. Their offspring came out with curved horns, but that's normal to happen sometimes. The others were all perfect. They also did not move much.



#7 ExoAnimalBre

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Posted 14 September 2017 - 11:06 AM

Pleas don't listen to most people that commented on here. Inbreeding in most insects such as beetles is bad. You could breed sister and brother but overtime if you continue doing it they will die out. But you should be able to do it up to F4-5. Id add new genes after that

#8 Ratmosphere

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Posted 14 September 2017 - 11:18 AM

Yea, always try and use different genes. I never bred a brother and sister together. 



#9 Eleodes hispilabris

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Posted 14 September 2017 - 08:33 PM

Does anyone know the scientific reason for this? 


"East or west, Rainforest is best...There's no place like The Amazon."--Eleodes hispilabris (P.S. If anyone has an instagram, feel free to add Eleodes_caudiferis, as I just got it...)


#10 Hisserdude

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Posted 14 September 2017 - 09:53 PM

Pleas don't listen to most people that commented on here. Inbreeding in most insects such as beetles is bad. You could breed sister and brother but overtime if you continue doing it they will die out. But you should be able to do it up to F4-5. Id add new genes after that


I've bred several Tenebrionid species for several generations, many of which started out with a single female, and they are still going strong despite the initial inbreeding... It could depend on the species, but "inbreeding" is usually an excuse people use for when their cultures die out for seemingly no reason, when many times husbandry issues are simply to blame.

Darklings: Alobates pensylvanica, Coelocnemis californicus, Coelus ciliatus, Eleodes clavicornis, Eleodes hispilabris, Eleodes nigrinus, Embaphion cf. contusum, Embaphion muricatum, Eusattus muricatus, Meracantha contracta, Platydema ellipticum, Tenebrio molitor, Tenebrio obscurus, Tenebrionid sp, Zophobas morio. Ground beetles: Pasimachus sp. "Arizona". Click beetles: 1 Alaus melanops larva, Ampedus sp, Elateridae sp larva, Elaterid sp larvae, Melanotus cf. similis, Melanotus sp, Pyrophorus noctilucus. Also: A bunch of cockroach species, spiders, isopods, and a cat. For a full list of my invertebrates, See my blog! http://invertebratedude.blogspot.com/


#11 Ratmosphere

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Posted 18 September 2017 - 09:14 AM

Just remembered! I had a few pairs of Atlas beetles around a year ago. They were brothers and sisters; the guy didn't use fresh bloodlines for years before this. The beetles were slow moving and would not breed. They also died much earlier than they were suppose to.



#12 Anacimas

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Posted 18 September 2017 - 11:35 AM

Does anyone know the scientific reason for this?


Supposedly, protracted close inbreeding forces recessive genes - most of which are adverse - to manifest. Please note, however, that I'm not a geneticist nor do I play one on TV. Clearly, long-term inbreeding never harmed European royals: just look at illustrious rulers like Charles II of Spain.

#13 Pewrune

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Posted 18 September 2017 - 02:09 PM

In breeding is an issue in the long run for rhinos and stags. you can get deformities and high death rate.

some stags can go over F7 without any problem, but some will have problems starting F3.

Because of this, beetle shops in Asia tries to import wild beetles so they can "refresh" the genes.




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